The Trailblazers Experience Podcast

How A Former CEO Turned Constant Change Into A Career Superpower : Frederike Knop EP87

• Ntola • Season 5 • Episode 87

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Summary
In this episode of the Trailblazer Experience Podcast, Frederike Knop shares her journey through the realms of change management and leadership, emphasising the importance of constant change, transparency, and empathy in business. From her early aspirations of becoming a CEO to her experiences in luxury retail and navigating the challenges of leadership, Frederike provides valuable insights for emerging leaders and advocates for women in executive roles. She discusses the significance of authenticity, the need for reinvention, and the importance of creating a supportive environment for change.

Takeaways

Frederike's drive for constant change stems from her upbringing and experiences.
She emphasises the importance of enjoying the journey in one's career.
Early aspirations included becoming a CEO 
Working in luxury retail taught her valuable lessons about leadership.
Achieving the CEO title did not bring the fulfilment she expected.
Empathy and putting people first are key traits of a great CEO.
Transparency within a team fosters trust and collaboration.
Vulnerability and authenticity are crucial in leadership.
Reinvention is necessary for personal and professional growth.
Women should be empowered to take on leadership roles without asking for permission.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Frederike Knop
01:18 The Drive for Constant Change
03:34 Early Career Aspirations and Influences
07:09 Entering the Luxury Space
11:43 The Reality of Being a CEO
12:26 Reflections on Achievements and Next Steps
16:40 What Makes a Great CEO?
20:22 Advice on Change Management and Transformation
23:25 The Importance of Transparency in Leadership
27:48 Navigating Gender Dynamics in the Workplace
32:29 Cultural Influences on Leadership Style
36:11 Reinvention and Career Transitions
39:57 Empowering Women in Leadership Roles
43:57 Outro

Follow Frederike : Linkedin Frederike Knop | LinkedIn

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The Trailblazer Experience:

Welcome to another episode of the Trailblazers Experience Podcast, the podcast where we have candid conversations with women sharing their career journeys. Today's guest is the formidable Frederike, a pioneering voice in change management and former CEO of Cronext. With a career-spanning luxury retail, operational restructuring, and culture building, Frederike is known for her passion for constant change and her candid, no-nonsense approach to leadership. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. It's really great to have you. And I know we were just talking about how we can't believe it's almost Christmas and how in Germany it's all about advents calendars. You know, that's how many can you have? How many can you enjoy? Such a pleasure to have you joining from another country. This is the joys of the internet. But yeah, before we even start, I always like to take it all the way back. If you can tell me a little bit about yourself, what you know, what led you into this career path and what was sort of the early days were for you. Because you describe your drive as constant change as a passion. But where did that mindset come from?

Frederike Knop:

I think the mindset itself is just that I'm very easily bored. Um, and I think this is something, to be very honest, the story goes really back to my parents. They have always moved across the world for my dad's job to the US and then different countries in Europe that I lived in. And it was always an entrepreneur mindset, right? So it was always you gotta work to get to where you want to go. Um, this is something that I've done in my private life, but I've also done in business, as you could see, or as you already mentioned. But for me, it's always like if you sit still, I cannot sit still. And this is something that is probably like the ADHD mindset as well that I have in Tiger. But for me personally, if you sit still, you lose, you lose your opportunities. You want to see something new. Um, my day never has enough hours. And this is something that like I'm always in motion. And for someone doing that, yes, on one side it sounds very, very tiring, but on the other hand, you always see something new. So for me, it's realizing that there is never enough hours in the day to see what I want to see, to travel where I want to travel, and to actually work on what I want to work on has always been the drive to be this kind of in Germany you call it a yo-yo, like the the toy where you like you up jump it up and down. And when it's down, it's still in motion, right? For me, that was always something that motivated me very well. Yeah. And for me, to decide it was a passion because it I need I needed to do it. So at one point I just decided, okay, then I can already enjoy it, right? So I don't only have to do it to fill my day, but then I can also have fun doing that. And the the phrase constant change as a passion was actually motivated by one of my friends who told me that have fun while you're doing it, because otherwise you will only forget yourself during in the process. So yeah, it came up as a child, always dirty, always playing around in the mud, and still as an adult where I look for mud that I can play with.

The Trailblazer Experience:

That is so interesting, isn't it? And the fact that you realize that really early early on that you should enjoy, you know, the career stage or personal stage that you're in. It takes some people 20 or 30 years to come to that point. So talk to me about, you know, career choices that you've made. What was like your first career? What did you actually think you wanted to do when you were growing up?

Frederike Knop:

Uh, I just took a look at that a couple of months ago when I was moving. Um, in German high school, you get this book, graduation book, right? And you have to write in where you want to live and what you want to do with your future. And I wrote down that I want to be a CEO. There was something I also wrote that is amazing. Yeah. I want to have a farm with a white picket fence and the labradoodle as the Americans do. So there was a lot of variety in that book, I can tell you. But I wanted to I wrote down I wanted to be become a CEO because I saw my dad being very integer while still raising up the ranks and then uh become an entrepreneur himself. And I always wanted I always saw being a CEO, you have the power to change things. That was probably my mindset when I was 18. And then I did international studies and I worked for my parents' company, and then I got got into Odemar PG, which was luxury watches at that time, right? And that was very international, very Swiss-driven, though. And I immediately saw that if you have a title, you can make more decisions and you have more power among other people's because they take you for they don't take you for drug granted, but they take you as a special person. So for me at that point, to be very honest, it switched. I didn't enjoy it, I just wanted more. I wanted the title, I wanted to raise up the ranks because I saw, okay, if I want to do more, I need to have them. So this gathering opportunity came along. And I I still enjoyed it. I think at the point in time I was more like working towards something. I always wanted to have this title, title, title. And then I switched because I was so I was getting bored. I was having all the same projects all along. And there was this glass ceiling, which is still very, very active in the luxury industry. And I decided, okay, if I cannot break it, I'm just gonna jump through it into another company, right? So I changed to Cronex, where it was still founder-led by very young founders, still a scale-up at that time. And then I rose up really quickly in the ranks. And it was at this point in time still was title driven, but it was also driven of just having the opportunity to work in a team that didn't have that much hierarchy, but more focused on teamwork. So different teams on different projects. And then I realized once I had the title, it didn't change. And I was, I was still passionate about my work. I love working. I still love working today, every day, like getting up in the morning. It's like this inner momentum to do work in the morning. But the title didn't change anything about either myself or the drive itself, because it was never over. Because now I had the title. What now? And at that moment I really felt lost because everyone was like, oh my God, you have this title and you're so important. But my work didn't change, right? I was still writing Christmas letters by hand, I was still packaging the packages. You know, like the normal CEO says, Yeah, I'm still grounded, I still package packages with the logistics team sometimes. But you didn't want to do that, yeah. No, I still did it because it was what was needed, but the title itself didn't bring me any happiness. Or it didn't bring me the feeling of, wow, now I've achieved something because for everyone else it felt very important. But for me, it was just I woke up on Monday morning at a title.

The Trailblazer Experience:

I mean, that is so interesting. I mean, first of all, kudos for you putting I want to be a CEO in your graduation book, I want to be the boss, I want to be the one who makes the decisions and quickly realizing, okay, if that's the path that I need to take, this is what I need to do. And you sort of went the other way around. Because I know um a lot of people who have family businesses, they tend to actually go and work elsewhere where and then end up in the family business. But you worked family business and then was like, right, you went to AP. I mean, we all know the watches, and that's a that's a different path, a different way. How was that for you entering into the luxury space? Because you did some major things when when you were there. So talk me through that process. So, how was it working for a luxury brand of that caliber? And what were sort of the key lessons you learned, you know, throughout the different stages while you were there?

Frederike Knop:

I think the most important part is that I was kind of headhunted in there. So I didn't even know the brand when I started, right? For me, everyone else was like, oh my God, you're working for a luxury, one of the top luxury brands. For me, there was I work for a company that produces watches. Watches I had no idea about. I'd never sold a watch before in my life, right? So the big advantage I had, it was still a family business at that time. It was still family-led by uh the Oudemach and the PG families. So for me, that was uh the feeling like I felt home because this it was the same kind of decision making. At that time, only about 270 employees. Now it's more than 2,000 worldwide. So it was still a very limited number of people you had to connect with. They were very open as the German market was was stable, but it was like very limited in comparison to the other, for example, Swiss market or the American market. They were happy about everything you did. So every kind of interaction, every email flow you changed. There was not an even SERM system back in the day, right? So every kind of interaction you had with the client was a new and special to the client, but also special to the company. So there was just a lot of space that you could fill up with your own ideas as long as you pulled through. The major thing was if you put something on your table, you have to eat it. And this is something that led me through my whole life. Like if you are proactive, you also have to follow through the project, somehow got kind of mixed with my personality, right? So in the company, I was known as the fixer, I was known as the person who could throw everything on the table and she will find a way, also at limited costs. So it already started back then. Because if I wouldn't spend it on my personal time, like why would I spend it on the company's dime? You know? This is something that always me and the company, whichever company I worked for, was always the same. So they really looked for someone who had this kind of attitude, and they also looked for someone very young because I started when I was starting my 20s, right? So I think it was just, it wasn't magic made in heaven at that point in time. The clients in Germany, as I mentioned, were at this point in time, they were only collectors, only people who were very knowledgeable about the watches, who knew more about the watches than I or our watchmakers did. So I learned from our clients. And this is something also it was they were 40, 50, 60 years old. I was starting on my 20s. I most likely was the age of their children, but they explained everything to me, and I was like a sponge. Every information that everyone could give me, I would just take in and then work on it, and then try to make it better in the next kind of project I came along with. So it was just an endless learning opportunity, and the market was still very unsaturated. So you could still do whatever you want to do. I think if you take a look at the luxury lifestyle today, or even at the luxury brands today, they are a lot more limited because they're also in a lot of big conglomerations. And for me, it was the biggest advantage that AP is still family-owned today and it was very independent. So there was not a rule book, but we also had a CEO who was reaching for the stars and was said, we want to be a stable and a progressive company, but we also want to be a little bit cooler than the rest. So do something that shakes up. So he was not afraid of mixing up the business. He was not afraid of maybe also telling some people, no, we don't want to do that. We want to do it completely different. So this is, I would say, one of the biggest drivers in my whole career were male mentors who gave me the opportunity to do whatever I want as long as it worked out.

The Trailblazer Experience:

That's so interesting, isn't it? Because a lot of the time, um, because I've done digital transformation work, chain managed works, and in legacy-driven businesses, the only way it works is if people are prepared to take that chance and say, look, you know, what's the worst that can happen? We will make this change and of course we will learn, but we'll still bring the business further than it was before. So you went into this business, founder-led, entrepreneurial, smaller at that time, and able to say, right, I'm proposing this. This is how we're going to see it through. And just being, you know, having the balls to just say, look, let's try this. Let's speak to our customers in a way that we can also understand them. And it feels like, you know, they were those ultra-high net worth customers, very knowledgeable, you know, those customers that you just want to keep. When you create your email flow, it's really all about that personalization. So yeah, it sort of feels like your career has been successful, even with moving to Chromex, because there was that entrepreneurial spirit, because there was that opportunity to optimize processes and transform change, which in more, I guess to say, you know, bigger businesses, conglomerates or PLCs is a bit challenging. You mentioned that you got to that CEO role and you were like, oh my God, right, I've reached it now. Now what? Where what was then the the tipping point then? What what did you do next? Because I'm sure there are a few women listening to the podcast who, whatever, it might not be a CEO role, it might be a creative director role or other roles where they've reached that top and they've realized, oh my goodness, okay, I'm here now. What next? What did you do for yourself then?

Frederike Knop:

There are two aspects of that. I can tell you what I did, and now with a little but like two years after, I can tell you what I should have done. Love it. Let's dive in. What I did is I went out with my friends. I popped a bottle of champagne and told myself I've reached every goal I've ever set for myself. The next day I started working business as usual. Um, I was very overwhelmed with the attention, especially like for me, it's I love to put people on a stage and and I love to put people in front when they have produced a very great product or a very great project. I personally do not lead and do not need the limelight. Like I'm very confident with myself. I think I'm the shit at some point. So I don't need people to tell me that. But there was a lot of media attention also at the same time, we were going through a restructuring, right? And a total diversion of the company. So all of these prospects came at the same time, and it very overwhelmed me. Like this, everyone was looking at me, and everyone was looking, what is she doing next? Asking these questions that you just asked, like, what are you gonna do next? And I was like, Well, I'm gonna rescue the company, right? And I'm gonna do whatever needs to be done. But I didn't really know what needed to be done because I had never been in the situation before, but I don't also have anyone in my surroundings that had ever been in a situation before. Because even though I'm the youngest of my friendship group, no one else was that high in a position at this point in time.

The Trailblazer Experience:

So there's no one to talk to to lean on to ask the questions, you know.

Frederike Knop:

So you had I had to talk to our lawyers and our accountants and the people who are working with me on the on the new restructuring of the company. But these were people who do this on a daily basis, right? So they also are very knowledgeable, but emotionally empathy-wise, they don't understand where I am because I'm I was completely lost. So for me, at this point in time, I did business as usual. I just pull through and I never really, really enjoyed the CEO title, to be very honest. Like this, okay, I can just cancel, um, I can cancel an appointment or I can travel somewhere and do like different uh things on stage. I only ever did it for the company. I never really did it for myself, which I still think is the right way. You should not only do it for yourself. But now that I've mentioned, I've reflected on it two years later, I should have maybe sat down a little bit more quietly and just realized what I'd done, how much work it took me to get here, because it took me 13 years to get there. And I still, 13 years to put it into perspective is a very, very short amount of time. And I know that. Like I'm my mid-30s. I know that I've I've reached a level that some people are still wishing on in their 50s. But I never really took the chance to sit down and realize, okay, so now that I've fulfilled my life's plan of in business, what is my next goal? And this is something that I should have done because this really got me to lose focus in my private life, in my emotions, because I didn't realize that I needed a new goal to work towards, because I'm a very goal-driven person or a very results-driven person. So I didn't have a result I was aspiring to. So I was just sitting there, I was working, working, working. And then it's never enough, right? Because if you don't have something that is a deadline or a goal, you just work, work, work, and you don't realize that you're just burning yourself out. So if I could change this into what have I done to what I would advise people to do, if you have reached a goal and you have not set yourself the next one, get yourself out of the mindset, get yourself out of the business, take a week-long holiday or something, and sit down and really understand where are you right now and where do you want to go next. Because this is what the great people do, and this is what the great the great systems also do. If you take a look at any AIKI-driven programs right now, they are taking a mid step, right? And then they're reinterpreting their information and they're focusing on something new. And I should have done that, but I was probably a little bit a little bit too shaken up in that moment. And also, what comes after CEO, right?

The Trailblazer Experience:

I love the point that you made about you always want your team to shine. You always wanted to make sure that you know it's your team in the limelight, and that is also a sign of of good leadership, you know, pulling them forward as as well. What do you think made you a great CEO? So, yes, you reached the goal, it's a major achievement. So we're clapping for you there at a young age. What made you a great CEO, in your opinion? So look in in hindsight.

Frederike Knop:

That I always put the people first. I'm an extremely empathetic person. So it's very important for me that the people surrounding me are also well and doing okay. Nevertheless, I am a person who can strictly diverge between empathy and emotions and tactical business. So I look at data and information and can interpret it in a way that doesn't mix with my personal opinion. And I don't have an ego, and I haven't I have a very large ego in my private life after that. Um, as like a strictly rad extroverted person, I have a very big ego in my private life. But in business, the best option wins. And this is something I would say made me a good CEO, but also made me different to the rest. Because I would say that a lot of CEOs or a lot of leadership personalities are still focused on their personal well-being, opposed to if the personal well-being is more important than the company, I don't think it mixes. And the other thing is alone you will not make it. Like you will make it to the top, but you will not stay on top because there was all will always be one person who was waiting for you to fall. And if you don't treat people accordingly, there will be more people for waiting for you to fall. And I've realized that the biggest asset is my network, the biggest asset I have right now, also in this change period, but also at the company, at the position I was in, I have never actively treated people bad. I wouldn't say that there have not been positions or situations like termination agreements or something where you have to be the mean one. But it was never something that suited me. It was never something that made me better than someone else.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Yeah, and it's also never personal, isn't it? There are lots of businesses going through restructure, there are redundancies. It's never personal at that at the end of the day. And I think once you realize that as a leader, I think then your your mindset or your approach to dealing with those tough situations is is completely different as as well. You are only as good as your village, isn't it? And your village is your team around you, isn't it?

Frederike Knop:

And and the team most likely knows stuff better than you do. I have people around like I I will never be the crack in performance marketing, but I've always had people who are amazing and doing so surrounding me. And what I mentioned before, my whole life, I've always gathered up information. And I would say the only thing that I can probably do projectively better than others is I can combine as much information as possible to make a whole picture. And I'm a person who will plan the next steps while she's already doing step one. So I will always well always have plan B to Z in there somewhere. And I think this is only this is one of the capabilities that good leaders should have. They should always plan for the next step, even if it's a better one. And they should like for me, it was always important to have people surrounding me who are better than me.

The Trailblazer Experience:

I totally agree with that. I I believe you need to have the brightest minds, the dis you know, people who can speak out, also listening to the quiet ones in the corner, because they usually have the best solutions as well, because they're taking time to absorb information and then what they have to say is really important, tangible, and relatable to the to the business. And your point about having that helicopter view always and thinking, okay, this is the situation now, but where are we flying to next, you know, in that analogy is so key. Rodrigue, I'm hearing that you, you know, despite all the challenges of being a CEO and getting there, you actually enjoyed it and you did some really cool stuff, you know, transformation and change. You have been there, done that, got the t-shirt. And, you know, a lot of businesses are trying to change, trying to grow transformation, and are struggling with it there. If you, if you're giving pieces of advice, you know, or posting on LinkedIn, what are some top tips that you think you can share about change management and transformation that you think would would help, you know, the listeners out there?

Frederike Knop:

I think the first thing is don't have an ego because I think a lot of the change that needs to happen is currently bound in companies which were either led by a founder or by a management personality which has been there a long time. And understand that at some point, if it didn't work out or if something didn't work out, it doesn't even have to be the whole thing, right? It's very hard to put your ego aside and to realize that you need help. So get yourself help. It doesn't always have to be a consultant because I have a very diverse opinion about consultants as well. There can be either magic or they can break the magic really quickly. So um get yourself help in doing so. Get yourself a different view on the situation. Take a look at the big players or the better players in the market, because it doesn't have to be ceiling, it doesn't have to be copying, but they are doing something right that you most likely are not currently doing. But also take a look at very at various competitors in different markets, right? So if they have a similar market product or a different market fit, take a look at what they are doing because respectively, in their target groups, they're probably more successful. And last but not least, talk to your people because as you mentioned before, the quiet ones in the corner have the best ideas. And when I take a look at what we've done as at Oder Mach PG, where I was still a person in the corner, but I was never quiet, to be very honest. I was still a person that wouldn't surprise me though. I was somewhere around the corner. They always asked. You were always able to give an opinion. The same thing at Cronext. The biggest game changers during restructuring came from people from the team. It came from sales, it came from marketing. Everyone was brainstorming, and sometimes it even came from people of opposing teams. So our best logistics decisions we made were actually driven by finance because they wanted to make it easier for everyone involved. Um, do not take options or opinions out of the box, but get into the box.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Do you think a lot of it is why that works so well is because it was also communicated downwards. So this is what we're doing and this is why. And the communication helped open up those lanes for people to contribute and support and provide, you know, alternatives. It was that a big determining factor?

Frederike Knop:

I think transparency is one of the biggest game changers you have in business. For us, it was very important to get the team on board as quickly as possible. The first couple of weeks before you saw you like you put the insolvency records on there, you are not allowed to talk to anyone. These were the hardest weeks of the whole business because everyone knew something was going on. No one could put the finger on there. Afterwards, it got so much easier because you all have a common goal and you also have common issues. So you know what the team is going through because they, when you give them transparency, they also give you transparency. Because everyone knows no one will get fired for being honest, right? And the biggest aspect of when you are transparent from the top, they give you truth from the bottom. And at the same point, when you give transparency towards the market and the client, they they will put in legal action anyways, and they will be very mad. And customer service is one of the most, if you have it in a bad situation of the business. And I I know that because I've done it in the past as well. Not in a bad situation, but I've done customer service, and even if they're happy, they are not. So everyone knew what was going on. There were no secrets left. And if there are no secrets left, there is no gossip. And if there is no gossip, there is no strain among the team because everyone has the same kind of knowledge and no one can use it for their advantage or the disadvantage of others. Because this is what the like the biggest threat I would personally say in a restructuring or change process. If people have different origins of information, it's just a human thing that you want to come up on top, right? And there are certain characters who don't mind coming up on top with the detriment of others, and there are certain people who will use it against others as well. And if you take this chance away from them, everyone has the same level playing field.

The Trailblazer Experience:

I mean, that's it. It's obviously, you know, human nature and human psychology, isn't it? That fight or flight survival mode and uh people getting into their own head about what's actually happening when the information isn't clear. So transparency is such a big one. You talked about honesty and why it's so important to you as a leader, and I guess from an integrity perspective. Girl, I'm loving your LinkedIn posts, you know, and I have it LinkedIn poster because I think it's it's a good way to communicate what you're doing, you know, where what you're if you're a thought leader, putting that out there, but your presence is refreshingly candid. You know, you're sharing both wins and challenges and you know the snippets of the podcast that you've been on before. What kind of conversations do you hope to spark, especially about being transparent about your journey and how can executives really embrace that? You know, storytelling as a tool and not here's my dog and here's me doing sport kind of thing.

Frederike Knop:

To be very honest, in the beginning, I didn't even want to post. I'm one of these people, I have an empty Instagram account because I only use it primarily for stalking or looking for new songs for my playlist. So for me, that was a challenge in the beginning, and then it was very marketing driven. It was meant to give Cronex the voice when I started doing it. But then I realized like this is I wouldn't say it's fake, but it's only one part of my personality because I'm witty and I'm quick and I sometimes make emotional decisions that not everyone can understand in the beginning, but in the end, they come with a reasoning, right? So for me it was either I do it in my voice or I don't do it at all. And my voice is strictly sarcastic. And I love how I can put a post out there which people who know me know how to read between the lines. They know understand, they understand completely what I'm saying, and also they feel taken onto the journey. And then other people who are just uh like these stuck up suits who don't, who never really read the post, but just are like flying through them, deciding if they're on it or not, they don't understand it. And then I get this an intense kind of reaction, which I love. I just love how people are reacting to it. And for me, it's just this is me. And this is I've taken a long time to come to the point where very not only be transparent in business, but also transparent with the challenges that the positions bring. And I don't think enough people are sharing challenges. And I'm not talking about I'm a founder and it didn't work out, or I do not know how to do my nine to five and then still go shopping, because we all know this, right? We all have the same challenges, but this is like I don't think this is something we should talk about. But we should talk about the how do you actually feel when everything is working out because you're still not happy. Because this is also something that we all feel. Or I never I don't think I'm special. I just have a special positioning in some certain kind of business area. And I never wanted to be like the guiding light for women in business because I think I've had very cherished opportunities. Like I could not talk about be how it feels like being mentored by a woman because I was always only mentored by very much older males. And I have realized that my whole kind of character was built through only reporting to men because I know how to handle men. I very openly have to say, leading young women is one of the biggest challenges I've ever faced. There will be a LinkedIn post coming on that. But no, but this is for me, it's this is just me. And we can use LinkedIn for business. And I'm also not very fan of the flirty Tinder style LinkedIn, which I've also gathered is a trend. Please don't. For everyone listening, please flirty text messages. I don't know how to handle it. But I love that we are now in a position where we can, and I am now in a position where I can say something, and people feel either the need to listen to it and think, hey, wow, this is probably helping me a little bit just to think about it, or where other people feel so triggered, especially men above 50, feel so triggered that they have to spark a conversation about it because this is exactly what I want to do. I want to converse about it.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Do you know what? I love the vulnerability that you've just, you know, exposed there, which is so important, you know, to actually say, I'm in a similar position of you where I have been mentored, I've been promoted, I have been um accelerated in my career by by men. They are my allies, you know. And um my I think my first ally was was my dad, who raising six girls and two boys, and he says, you know, you're gonna have to work twice as hard, but you belong in the room, you belong in that position, you should always have a voice and always be learning. And that's the thing, isn't it? So when you get into positions where the board, 90% of it is they're older and they're men, there's so many learnings to take there about how they how they challenge, how they interact, how they bring their points across, you know, how they disagree. And it's a great thing to learn, especially because as women naturally are we have emotion in us, isn't it? We always have that little corner of us that wants to feel and lead with emotion. But in a business setting, there are ways for you to lead without, in my opinion, bringing that side out. Because in situations where you have to make decisions, it's not it's not needed, you know.

Frederike Knop:

But it's interesting that you say that with your dad, because my dad, also I'm the youngest of three, I have a younger brother and younger sister, and I always knew that I had um opportunities that others didn't. But my dad is still under the opinion that men and women are no different. And it's so funny when you say your dad told you like you have to work twice as hard. My dad was always like, You have to work twice as hard if you want to get that far. But he's still astonished when I tell him that I didn't get a job because I'm a woman. He's always like, But why? But I wouldn't, I wouldn't promote someone just because they're a man. And I'm just sitting there and I was like, wow, what a refreshing experience. Example of not being just an old white man who has criminal.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Yeah, but it's easier, it's easier for a man to say that, right? So the reason why, so for example, my dad said work twice as hard is also because I have this amazing melon inside of me. So there's the whole you're a black woman working twice as hard. But then he also says, well, when you go into the interview process, just see yourself as a candidate to your dad's point. You're a candidate and just be the best. Be the best there. Take away the gender, just be the best. And then if they're hiring you, you're the best. And then if you happen to be a woman, kudos, even better. But it's hard, isn't it? Because you're having, you know, everyone talks about imposter syndrome and all this going on, but yeah, ultimately the work, the experience that will shine through. You know, being known in the industry, when someone says, Frederica, she's known for this and that, there will be things they'll be naming, but it's all due to the credibility that you've built in your career. That's what shines through ultimately, I think.

Frederike Knop:

Yeah, I I think for me it's always I I would probably guess it's the same with you. I judge people by the point I want to be judged, or in more detail, I treat people like I want to be treated. Yeah. And sometimes if someone is doing something incredibly nasty, I'm just sitting there. I was like, I I like, why would you do that? Like, this is so unnecessary. Like, either we could have talked about it or we could have found a solution, but why would he do that? And I was always like, why am I not understanding these people? And I've had a great, great man in the last couple of weeks tell me who was um my grandfather. I read a book that he wrote a couple of years ago, just like some comments. Like in that book, he said that um you should be happy that you don't understand people like that because you are not like that. And this is like the after-world war generation, right? So this is like they've lived through all of it. And it it was this book of how they are living with what their parents and their previous generations gave them and how they do not understand how you could behave like that, especially with the German background, right? And for me, it was just like, ah, okay, this explains a lot. I cannot understand people because I'm just not like that.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Yeah, it is a different mindset actually. Growing up in Germany, I just love the fact that people, and maybe it's because historically, isn't it? They're very matter-of-fact, it's all about transparency, it's all about clarity. Yes, rules, lots of rules, lots of rules. And then you travel to other countries where just the mindset and the culture is just very leisure-fair and and very difficult.

Frederike Knop:

You just feel very free when we travel somewhere.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Yes, exactly. Yeah, right. I think I still have those tendencies in me, just you know, efficiency, being on time. What is it we're trying to do? What's the what's the process? But I think that's what makes us who we are, isn't it, as leaders? And it shapes you. I think in hindsight, a lot of what you've said is, you know, your upbringing, the the ethics and values that your parents instilled in you. That's shaped who you are in some way and another as a leader as well, isn't it?

Frederike Knop:

Don't you think? Absolutely. I would say, like, I'm always saying I'm the worst mix you could have between my dad and my mom, because my dad is like this, very like German architect, right? Engineer, very strict, very like down to earth, but all like going on the dark, dirty construction side, but at the same time, like you have to be on time, you have to be better than the rest, like very performance-driven. And then I have this angel of a mom who's like, you have to understand people, put yourself into their shoes, don't ever do anything to your advantage. It always has to be a team advantage. This is my parents made me being an older sister, which is probably the biggest aspect of them all, made me who I am as a team lead. Because I need to make sure that everyone is performing, but at the same time, I need to make sure everyone feels safe. And this is something that I have to, I've only ever seen in women. I've never seen that, like I've seen particles of it in men, but like the whole prospect of going in there into the CEO position and going into growing into a position where you're only surrounded by men, but still coming out on top because you are like you have to be so tough. But then you turn around and you're they raise other people raise children with an immense empathy and just like cultural diversity, but they turn around and they're the biggest CEO badass you can find. And this is something we as women had to prove ourselves all along, starting in school. And this is something like we can we can talk about it as much as we want, it's still a factor today. You have to be trying, you have to work twice as hard to get the same way where other men would be. And I think to see that there are so many women now, and when to come back to when I was 18, I understood if you want to be CEO, you have to wear a gray pantsuit.

The Trailblazer Experience:

So I wrote that down. I remember that. Yes, no, I remember one of my first job interviews um where I wasn't wearing a uniform, I was promoted, and then the first suit I went to go and buy was a gray pantsuit.

Frederike Knop:

So when it's crashed hat. Black is too dark, black is too dark, but gray. You can combine either rose or it's ridiculous. This was the image, like you have to be a baddest, the hair has to be tamed, you have to be like, you have this strong eyeliner, you're standing in your gray pantsuit across the man. And now I'm just like, I I made myself so limited by trying to achieve that. And at the same time, I found myself. And today I would not buy myself a gray pantsuit because the gray really does not suit me. But this is the time you have to do what you have to do to get to where you need to go. So, you know. A lot of the other aspects I intrinsically somehow elevated myself with. Everything went not in the end, went right up until now. But the start and the finish are a very, very diverse option. It's not the same picture at all.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Of course. And I guess you're in a different phase of your life, isn't it? I think that's why this podcast is really good to have the conversation. So women know in their 20s, they probably need to graft a bit harder. You know, in your 30s, if you are lucky to get into that CEO position, it's then, okay, so who are you then? Redefine yourself and reinvent. And then what do your 40s and 50s look like? Just making sure, like you said, you have to set different goals for the different periods of your life that you're in, isn't it? To where you need to go. So important. So let's talk about reinvention. Obviously, you're no longer at uh Cronext. You are, you know, looking for the next stage, whether it's professionally or personally. What's important to you for your next chapter?

Frederike Knop:

I've learned that integrity across a business is my most important factor. I thought two years ago, I thought I could work with people, even though I personally was not a fan of them on a personal level. I thought business-wise, well, if they smart make smart decisions, I can do that. I've learned that this is nonsense. Because I can much rather work with people who are not making the smartest business decisions and I can support them in making smarter ones, but I will never again work with a person I do not would like to share a beer with. Even though I don't drink alcohol, but you know. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And so for me, it's integrity, it's transparency, because I want other people to be as transparent with me as I'm with them. And I'm looking for something with a turbulence, something with maybe an internal fatigue, something with something to stabilize, not something that is already settled in what they want to do, even though that might be the more demure and the more quiet option right now. And funnily enough, a lot of offers I get are for these quiet companies where I'm like, you are so you make so much money, you have such a huge business. Why would you look for someone who brings trouble? Yeah. Who wants to shake things up? Who makes chaos in a bottle? But no, it's for me, I need an outlet for this energy. I need something that I can still motivate and change. And ideally, maybe a team that has not been this disabled, who would like to have someone who leads them through the next chapter with a little bit of objectivity, but also with very subjective empathy.

The Trailblazer Experience:

I'm sure that I mean there are so many businesses like that that are just ripe for reinvention, isn't it? So you are you are poised for that. You've spoken it into your universe. And I feel like now just hearing you speak and just you're in a position where you now know where it is directionally you want to go. It might even be a different industry, a different sector. Because I feel truly believe being agnostic is the best, the best way. You don't have to pigeonhole yourself to one sector. It's actually the skill set that you're bringing with you that is going to be the benefit.

Frederike Knop:

Absolutely. And I think this is something also I worked on it without actively working on it. So I created my chain never really a year ago. Well, sorry, I completely lost the blog there. A year ago, I sat down with some friends of mine to come to a point where I put a CV on to actually have like, who am I as a CEO? Who am I as a person? And they were like, you bring chaos. Well, I didn't want to admit that, but yes. But they always were like, You are very passionate. Yeah, I'm also very passionate. And you bring change. And I never declared myself as change management because I was like, okay, I go into a company and I do restructuring, yes, but this just came with a company. It didn't come as an intrinsic motivation. And I've realized that I've done that all my career, my my whole career. I've done restructuring, transformation, and change. And that's why I realized, okay, not a lot of people can work in this environment or actually would want to work in this environment also. So why not take it as my complete advantage and use it towards marketing myself?

The Trailblazer Experience:

I mean, it's a superpower, isn't it? When they ask in the interview, so why should we hire you? What do you bring to the table? You need to know those three key areas that you are your standout, and those are your superpowers, and you love it as well. So why not, you know, play on that as well? We're coming to the end of the podcast where we want to empower whether it's the next generation or women pivoting in their next career change or founders. What advice would you give to emerging leaders who want to drive change, but maybe they're feeling stuck, you know, at the moment in rigid systems? And how can organizations better support women in executive roles? Because we know that the glass ceiling is still there, but we need to see more of them crack, crack it and break it open.

Frederike Knop:

So my advice, stop asking for permission. Do whatever you want to do. In the end, someone will be angry. Ideally, it's not the board lead, but even if it's the board lead and you made something good happen out for the company, don't ask for permission and don't do it for yourself. As long as you don't do it as a subjective opportunity for yourself, but also always for the team or the company. No one will ever be able to tell you that wrong. Also, even if you're in a smaller role as you perceive it right now, um there will always be big opportunities. Always put your head on the table for a big opportunity. Never say that you do not belong in a position. Never tell yourself that you don't, you shouldn't do it right now, because even if you don't get it right now, people will know that you want to be be better, you want to be bigger, so you will get the next opportunity. So always put your head on there, even if you only fulfill 20% of the requirements. And how do we support women better? Put them in power. I don't think it helps women to tell them we are communicating that we are so equal and so diverse, and we help, we put PR on there. And it doesn't help to be put putting people only in positions if the gender describes it. So for women, it's still marketing and PR, right? So stop doing that. Put them in front of finance, put them in front of in a board seat, PL. Give them real ownership. Because if people can have real ownership, they can either win or fail. But even if they fail, they bring peace to another person. So how about stop communicating? We do it, but actually doing it? Because it's still a great marketing tool, right? Putting diverse positions in there, putting a woman in a board seat, great, and then she doesn't do anything? Doesn't matter. Those positions don't matter. The positions where you actually not only a face to the company, but create change with another company is more important, in my opinion.

The Trailblazer Experience:

There's some studies actually, uh Frederica, that have been done where they said men look at it and if they fulfill 50% of their applied, women want to tick all the boxes before they actually go for it. So it's one of those just do it. You know, what's the worst that can happen? Long list, short list, no list, at least you've actually gone for it as well.

Frederike Knop:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I was the most unlikely candidate for CEO. We discussed it, we looked for other people, we tried out other people. In the end, I got it. I, in my personal opinion, I made the most change. So let's try it. And if you fail, fail better next time.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Frederica, we always end the uh podcast with the Trailblazer takeaway tips. So it could be a mantra, a mindset, a piece of advice for our listeners who want to lead with purpose and build something minim meaningful. What's your takeaway tips for us?

Frederike Knop:

For me, change is not chaos, it's creating something better. And before you really go into changing everything else, ask yourself what you change or want to change about yourself first. Because you will only be as good as you feel while doing it. Something I didn't take into consideration along the way, something I've learned on the very hard way the last couple of months. If you're feeling good, you can make others feel better.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Derike, thank you so much for sharing your story with clarity, with courage. You've really shown us that transformation isn't just strategy, because I know that word is thrown around a lot. It's really about mindset, culture, and just a commitment to doing things differently to make real change and make things happen. So it's been really good just to hear this honest, fluid uh conversation come through, which is what I what I love about you. So thank you so much.

Frederike Knop:

Thank you so much for having me and allowing me to share this information.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Where can people find you on the socials?

Frederike Knop:

As I mentioned before, not on Instagram. I'm just stalking there. They can find me on LinkedIn. And this is right now the primary form until my next big challenge, I would say.

The Trailblazer Experience:

Well, I look forward to seeing where you land. It's been brilliant. We'll keep on following you. And for everyone who's been listening, thank you so much for joining us. Please remember to subscribe, to follow us. We can only grow, we can only continue the podcast if we uh have your support. And tell another woman, tell another male ally about the podcast because hey, we're all in this together. So thank you so much. Bye.