The Trailblazers Experience Podcast

EP36 Bianca Bass: An Inspiring Journey from Brand Marketing to Board Advisory

• Ntola • Season 3 • Episode 36

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My next guest is Bianca Bass , Marketing Director in the Fintech industry .
What does it take to pivot from a career in brand marketing to a strategic role as a board advisor? Meet Bianca Bass, who did precisely that, as she generously shares her journey in today's podcast episode. Get ready to be inspired by her early passion for writing, dreams of working for British Vogue, and her brave pivot into copywriting for prestigious brands due to financial constraints. Listen to her enlightening reflections on landing a role at TripAdvisor at just 23 and the role networking played in shaping her career trajectory.

As we move deeper into our conversation with Bianca, she unpacks her career transitions from brand and content to marketing, and finally to the FinTech industry. She shares invaluable advice about the importance of understanding one's value-add, the power of a consumer perspective, and why being industry agnostic is key for career advancement. We also dive into her experiences as a woman in a male-dominated industry, and her belief in the power of one's voice and unique perspective in the workplace. The conversation concludes on a powerful note about the critical importance of diversity in today's tech-driven world, encapsulated by a motivating quote from Dr. Maya Angelou.

Our dialogue also delves into the personal, as Bianca shares her experiences as a single parent with C-suite aspirations. Listen as she imparts wisdom about self-compassion, work-life balance, and the changing values of the younger generation. We wrap up our enlightening conversation by shedding light on Bianca's current role as a board advisor, the lessons she has learned, and her belief in the centrality of end-to-end customer experiences for growth. Tune in for this riveting episode filled with valuable insights and inspiring stories from a trailblazer herself, aimed at empowering women through these engaging conversations.

Follow Bianca
https://www.linkedin.com/in/biancabass/

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The Trailblazers experience:

Welcome to another episode of the Trailblazers Express podcast, the podcast that showcases the career journeys of amazing women across various sectors, and this is actually season three, the launch of season three, and my guest today is the amazing Bianca Bass. How are you doing today? Good morning.

Bianca Bass:

I'm really well. Thank you, good morning. Great to be here.

The Trailblazers experience:

I think a great way to start the season, because your journey has been amazing, has been awesome. You describe yourself as a brand marketer who's gone now to the boardroom in terms of board advisor. Should we just circle back and just talk about your journey and how this all started, because I think there's so many women out there currently thinking how do I sidestep into a different trajectory of my career? And I think it's always interesting to know the early years of what makes you tick and what made you go in a specific direction.

Bianca Bass:

Yeah, I would love to and I always think that there's so much richness and so many learnings from those early years, and whenever I feel that my career is going a little bit in a direction that doesn't feel true to me, I go back to those early years and those really early dreams that I had. So, yes, very happy to start there. So I grew up always loving writing. I was a passionate writer. In my spare time I would create magazines on a very early version of Microsoft Word. My first magazine was called Heroin with an E and I really just loved telling these feminist stories from the playground and from my mum's friends and was always just a very naturally curious, curious person.

Bianca Bass:

And when I went to university, I thought I really want to be a journalist. That was my dream and this is what, looking at the recession 2008 recession and I moved to London and started doing unpaid magazine intentions. The first year it was all really unheard of titles and I was just trying to get as many experiences as I could. But I worked my way up and got to my dream, which was British Vogue, and what an incredible experience it was. It was at the time that Vogue were launching their first ever Vogue festival and I got an understanding not only of the fashion industry but of the more commercial side of what it takes to promote an event, what marketing means.

Bianca Bass:

And it was at that point that I had a bit of a decision to make, because I was graduating in the depths of the recession. I felt that, as much as I love the industry, being completely candid I couldn't afford to live in London on what those roles were paying and so I was asked to stay on at Vogue, but it just wasn't feasible for me, given what they were able to pay. And there's a great deal of privilege in the magazine and the publishing and the journalism space which, coming into it, I wasn't aware of. I still, to this day, adore the industry, I love magazines, I love editorial, but I had to pivot a little bit quite quickly when I realized this isn't going to quite work for me.

The Trailblazers experience:

So a dream crusher, because you had all these visions of working there. But then what wasn't marrying up was the dream, the passion, with the renumeration and the compensation.

Bianca Bass:

Yeah, exactly that, and that was quite a painful lesson to learn early on and I think, if I reflect back, that was quite a defining moment in how I've approached my career. Subsequently, I also had an experience where I had an internship in New York at Nylon magazine, which was another dream of mine. That was another reality check, slash dream crusher in a healthy way, because New York is a harsh. I had no money.

The Trailblazers experience:

I was expensive in London, yeah.

Bianca Bass:

Exactly that. It was really expensive and I just went into it completely naive, and I think that level of naivety can be helpful when you're going after these really bold out there dreams. But yes, I learned a lot very, very quickly and coming back graduating I realized I need to do something else. I didn't want to lose the essence of what I loved, which was writing, and at that time I was very much into fashion and the creative industries. So somebody mentioned to me you know, if you want to make a bit more money, you could get into copywriting, and I remember not actually knowing what that was. I thought copywriting is that something to do with that trademark law? I had no idea.

The Trailblazers experience:

You were thinking of the other, and actually, bianca, there's also a lot of money in copyright law, by the way. Either, or a lot of money.

Bianca Bass:

I wasn't quite qualified yet, but I was willing to do whatever it took. So, yes, I remember the first few weeks after graduating. It was a real, just difficult time. I was working in a call center promoting solar panels and another call center doing these government surveys and just thinking I am so incredibly lost. And then I got an opportunity to start my career at John Lewis where I was a copywriter. I then moved to Selfridges, other well-known brands all household names at that time and I was really just. If my family have heard of the company, I will go work there and that was my metric of success.

Bianca Bass:

Where things really changed Established business yeah, yes, an established business. We're doing great. But where things really changed for me was when I got an opportunity to join TripAdvisor. So they approached me and it was for a role in Oxford. I lived in London and the role was a copy manager role managing their small copywriting team, and I was 23. And I remember the recruiter saying you are quite young for this role. And I thought, well, I'll just go for the interview. And that was always my mantra and it has been ever since Always take the conversation. You never know where it's going to take you. At the very least, you'll learn something new about a new person, you'll make a new connection, you'll learn something about an industry, or you might have an opportunity. So I took Always take the meeting, isn't it Always take the meeting, always take the meeting yeah.

Bianca Bass:

Always take the meeting and always try and be proactive in booking, in other meetings with people and even when you are happy in a role, just to keep that muscle going. So got to TripAdvisor, was very fortunate to get a job offer. It was a big step up for me, with a minor caveat. It was in Oxford and so I bought a car for the role and I drove there every day and back because I knew that for me to get a manager position in London it wouldn't have happened. The reason that I was given that opportunity so young was because I took a risk. I took a risk and it was stressful and difficult and tiring, but it was also the moment that my career changed and that's when I started to learn. I think it's interesting.

The Trailblazers experience:

Bianca. So there are two key takeaways that I'm just hearing from there. Oh, please, I think for the audience that's listening is sometimes you have to step out of your comfort zone to progress your career. Fashion magazine really sexy, and then retail really sexy for a lot of people. And so I'm going to take a sidestep, A get out of London and two, work for TripAdvisor, and so I think the fact that you said you know what I may have to commute an hour and a half or more, it's outside of my comfort zone, but this is a managerial position and will get me on that trajectory for growth.

Bianca Bass:

That was exactly my mindset. A few people in my life thought that I was pretty out there for doing that, but I had this very strong trust that this opportunity was going to open up doors for me that would otherwise be closed. And to your point about moving away from a sexy industry yes, that was exactly how I felt. But when I was working in fashion cupboards as an unpaid intern, when I was initially working in retail, I was writing about and surrounded by things that I could not ever see myself being able to afford, and that was a kind of special kind of torture in a way, because it was everywhere. I also was a student, worked on the shop floor at Southridge's selling very, very, very expensive shoes, so I had a very interesting and kind of I don't know the right word for it, but I was exposed to a lot of wealth very early on in my time in London and I think that that made me feel less than in many ways If we're talking about class and just the fact that I didn't come from that kind of background and then suddenly it was everywhere, all around me, and it definitely shaped the decisions I made.

Bianca Bass:

So when I had the opportunity at TripAdvisor, I thought this is a route to a different kind of life. Yes, to your point, it's a risk and it's tough, but it ultimately paid off. And so I joined. I got to lead my first ever team and that's when I learned rents really lie. And at times, again, it was very difficult because I was managing people who are older than me and I was very self conscious about that fact. So I was very much in my head about managing people that were older. But as my time at TripAdvisor went on, I had this real sense of I have a gift in asking good questions, helping people when it comes to their career objectives, and I really enjoyed doing this. So that, for me, opened up the whole next phase of my career, which was really a focus on leading teams and ultimately working with people, and, I think, going back to my initial objectives, which was journalism and writing, and really basing that on curiosity. So much of good leadership is about being curious. It's about not just giving people answers. People don't want answers. They want to be asked the right questions to lead them to the answers.

Bianca Bass:

So after TripAdvisor, I was there for about two years. I was a very young senior manager. I got promoted, loved it, could have stayed there, could have been very comfortable. But I was about 25 and I thought, hmm, I could either go and do an MBA and learn more about business, because it's a massive organization and I was working on one siloed part of it and I was getting a little bit frustrated because I didn't know what the business impact of myself and my team's work was. So MBA, or do I join the startup world? And I chose to join the startup world, which I think was definitely the right decision for me, and joined a company called Labs.

The Trailblazers experience:

I don't think so, that because you were a trip advisor, which is a digital business, so it was sort of your first foray into digital tech and, like you said, you were actually interested in the numbers and the metrics and wanting to know what impact does my role have on the business. How do you then suddenly pivot and say, okay, I'm going to join the startup world? What is the decision making process? Because I know a lot of people actually, with everything we're seeing on social media and lots of YouTubers Dragonsden, shark Tank seeing how businesses have grown and 10X themselves in terms of revenue what then makes you say think you know what, I think I could add value to some startup out there. How does that come about?

Bianca Bass:

So I was looking at it from the perspective of, whenever I've followed my curiosity, I've never gone wrong. Things may have been difficult at times, I may have gone to the wrong environment or the wrong culture that, providing I'm following that deep curiosity within me, it always seems to work out. And at that point we were doing a lot of email marketing campaigns and brand led campaigns and events and the actual quantifiable success of those was not made available to us and it was kind of the mindset of you keep doing what you're doing, you're doing great. We on this side over here focus on that and I didn't like that because I wanted to know the end to end impact that I'd had. It was really important to me motivation wise and I had felt really comfortable at that point and the leading a brand and content team to go to that next level, I needed to know about marketing and I also saw and again going back to how I was shaped by my early experiences again I could see a ceiling for my earning potential, which was that if I stay in brand and content, I will be able to have a good career and I will be able to really work with brilliant people and do fantastic things for brands that I really admire and respect. But if I wanna go to that next level and I'm talking financial objectives as well I need to get into marketing. And that's not going to happen in this big organization because of the way that we work in silos. So the I knew as well. The only way that I'd be able to pivot, to be in marketing and to get that title was to work for a startup where I was the first marketer and then I'd build it from there.

Bianca Bass:

I didn't know exactly how it pan out, but I knew I'm interested in sales. I did a lot of selling when I was part-time working as a teenager and I loved aspects of it, hated other aspects, but I knew that I have that skill and it was just a huge risk. And I do remember telling people that I worked with a TripAdvisor that I really loved and respected. I'm going to do this head of marketing role for this company. It's basically it's unknown. I'm gonna be joining a building site and it's myself and the team's job to turn it into a brand, into a business. And again, it was one of those defining moments where I thought I have to do this. I'm 25, I've got time on my side, but I also have a sense of urgency in wanting to learn new things. What's the worst that can happen? And from there onwards I've been working in the startup and scale up space.

Bianca Bass:

So for the first few years of that phase of my career, I was very much working in early stage startups launching, helping raise investment rounds, developing brands from scratch. And then, when it came to moving again into the FinTech space, that was really happenstance. It was an opportunity that I didn't seek out necessarily, but that when I met with the company, I felt, yeah, there's synergy here, I could do something. And you asked me about how I knew there'd be value that I could add. And this is one of the things that I really want to stress and just make a strong point of. We have to be really, really clear on what our brand of value adding is, and I knew that the way that I stand out is that up until that point and onwards in my career, I've been very industry agnostic and that has helped me, because whenever I come to a new project, I'm looking at it from many different angles.

Bianca Bass:

I'm not looking at it from well, yes, I've worked in tech my whole career. I can't get that role from a fashion and retail background. Then when I'm looking at joining the FinTech space, I was coming at it from a consumer startup background and I wonder if you've also had that with the net position that you've been telling me about, because when you come to a new industry the FinTech space, for example, from retail I think there's so much power in that because you're not coming at it with certain limitations. And I do think that has been the key to the success that I've had when I have pivoted each time, because I don't have the same way of viewing things and I'm looking at it really from the consumer lens rather than from an industry lens, and that's been incredibly helpful.

The Trailblazers experience:

I totally agree with being industry agnostic if you really want to accelerate in your career, because otherwise you're just gonna put yourself in a box. And that's sort of even for myself in my careers starting off in retail, I wasn't akin to once I knew that the Indresses didn't pay really well and I guess you're at the top and there's so many people crowding for that space. Actually, if you look at it holistically and say that helicopter view and say, right, what's my value add? Someone quoted I was listening to a podcast about the music industry and the business of music and talking about how there are two types of equity in terms of value.

The Trailblazers experience:

There's sweat equity in terms of your adding your skill set, your knowledge, what you're bringing to the table. And then the other equity is obviously the cash investment that you're looking for. That sweat equity, that person who's worked in those categories, worked in those industries and can add value to help them grow their business. And once you hit that nail on the head, it's sort of what I find the net rolls really interesting and I wanna build on that If I think I want a future proof, my career. What is the next 15, 10 years look like or more? I enjoy that, and it doesn't matter. With its AI, with its FinTech, it could be the health industry, it could be more tech, any of the tech industries saying, right, how can I bring my skill set? Doesn't matter where I worked, what's my value add? I think is a big lesson, and you've learned it early on. I mean. That's pretty amazing, though, bianca.

Bianca Bass:

No, thank you, and I really resonate with everything you've just said about what is that value add? And being really strong in the fact that no one coming to that role has had the experiences that you've had. And I didn't necessarily know that. I had a lot of self-doubt and a lot of imposter syndrome quote, unquote and then over the years I've realized more and more just through being able to get if I'm just like analyze myself a little bit, maybe I really needed the quantifiable, measurable proof that my work really was making a difference. And once I had that, it was fact. It wasn't feeling, it was just cold, hard, fact.

Bianca Bass:

This is evidence that I am able to go in, I'm able to grow a business, I'm able to build a really successful brand and this is how much revenue we've made, or whatever the metric is. And so, yes, going back to your point, I really think that key takeaway from this conversation already know the value that you add and be really clear on that. And every conversation you go into, every interview you go into, every board meeting you go into, remember I am here because I have a collection of experiences that nobody else around this table does and I look at things with a whole different vision and, yeah, I think at this point in my career I have enough evidence to start to believe that. But gathering those data points as well has been very helpful for me.

The Trailblazers experience:

So whenever I do have moments of self-doubt on my phone, in an iPhone note, just everything that I can just look at and say you've done really well, you're good, like you've achieved a lot, you're absolutely fine, and you have to remind yourself of that from time to time because as a woman as well, so you're circling in this startup space where probably there are not lots of women as well and also the industries that you decided to pivot into. Talk to me about some of the challenges that you've had and how you've overcome them as a woman.

Bianca Bass:

I think particularly in FinTech, that's been very true, very pertinent. So I have always looked at any role that I've been in, particularly a leadership role with a great deal of responsibility and that isn't that it's my responsibility to solve all of the company culture problems that we know exist. I know that I can't do that it's bigger than me and it's bigger than any one person but I have looked at it as a great privilege to be able to be in rooms that otherwise wouldn't have had a woman in or wouldn't have had a perspective like nine in. So, yes, I have had some difficult experiences with men in the workplace. I think any woman who has had a career can relate to that and knows exactly what I'm talking about, without going into details and I know that you'll have your stories too and I hate that for us. And so when I see the generation that are now coming up into the workplace, if there are women like you, women like me, there that they can see, I take that very seriously, because I didn't have many role models when I started my career, especially not in some of, as you say, the more male dominated industries. I didn't have an example. I didn't come from a family where that had been the story, and so I feel really proud and privileged and honored to be able to write a new kind of story.

Bianca Bass:

I definitely think that it took me some time, confidence-wise, when it came to speaking up in meetings. So I grew up very, very shy. I felt hugely terrified of speaking in some of the big especially when I worked for TripAdvisor big American meetings. Lots of very privileged energy in that room and I remember having little challenges with myself. So I would say you have to say one thing in this meeting, and it doesn't have to be a huge thing, but you have to say one thing Start there.

Bianca Bass:

It's a meeting of a couple of women, a load of men. You have to say just ask a question. If you don't have a comment, ask a question. And over the years I've really kind of gamified it, gamified it actually and said to myself okay, in this meeting I think that you should challenge yourself to actually, if you disagree respectfully disagree Make a comment that just says you know what?

Bianca Bass:

I actually view it this way. And so a lot of experimentation, a lot of building up that neuroplasticity to say you have a voice, you can use it, you are continually using it, and when you do use it, you add a whole new perspective that this business really needs. And so, yes, it's been a challenge at times. I view it as a big responsibility, I view it as a privilege. I'm excited for the generations that are coming up to have less of that to deal with, and if I can play a really small part in being an example for somebody or creating an opportunity for somebody and then showing them that there's a different way to lead as well, then that brings a huge amount of meaning to me, correct?

The Trailblazers experience:

I think that's so important. I don't know if you've ever read the book by Cheryl Sandberg called Lean In. And just talking about how you deserve a seat at the table and when you are at the table, sit there and be present, contribute, ask questions, you know, be an active listener, because that's how you learn, think about what your point of view is and obviously, if you're asking a question is, how will it add value to the conversation? One thing about that value add and also, if you're a trailblazer, the first one in the room, remember you are breaking those barriers for the rest, to come through and finding your allies.

The Trailblazers experience:

My dad always said to me that wherever you go, obviously there will be more men in the room, but find your allies. And I must say, bianca, I have lots of male allies who've helped with my career, who've given me advice and if you ask them, they're so honest and open and they will show you the ropes. If you don't ask, you don't get as well. I think this is to acknowledge as well, to help you on that trajectory as a woman in the industry.

Bianca Bass:

And I think we're all people trying to do our best, most people. Of course. There are people that you meet in the workplace that you're like, oh god, no, no, but most people are good at their call and for some of the old-time men that I've worked with, they also they're trying to figure out this new way of working and new people coming into the workplace and so, yeah, I think, making those allies so important. A closed mouth doesn't get fed.

The Trailblazers experience:

Oh yeah, bianca, it's actually an interesting time now because I think, maybe I think about the different industrial revolutions that have happened, and tech has been a major one, but now there's sort of this other you know revolution that's happening, whether it's AI, the evolution of technology itself, the evolution of the workspace, the evolution of how we communicate, how we interact. So this is a good time to actually be one of the people who are making a difference on our, you know, step changing, because the guys in the room who've been around us, they also have never navigated through this time before.

Bianca Bass:

I so love that and I think about that a lot at the moment, particularly at a time of such increasing polarization, where all the powers that be want us to be against each other. They want us to be, you know, in really siloed communities, and we have to lean in to embracing the people that have been in the business for 30 years as well and bring them closer, because we need their knowledge in the same way that they need ours, and I think that that's where the most successful businesses really exist, when they have true diversity of thought. We need those different lived experiences around the table. And, yeah, going back to the point about how does it feel to be the only woman in those environments, how does it feel and how has that experience been for me in a lot of male dominated environments?

Bianca Bass:

Something that I've taken a great deal of strength from has been the Dr Maya Angelou quote. I come as one, but I stand as 10,000, and that has really stayed with me. My mum is from Brazil, my entire female lineage is Brazilian and I think about the opportunities that I've been able to have compared to what they had, and they're always with me. They're always with me wherever I go. I just think I'm walking into this room as one, but I do come as 10,000, and the fact that society has a long way to go still, but that we've progressed enough that I'm able to be in this room and I'm able to earn great money and I'm able to really use my voice and actually be heard. Okay, that's progress, we're on the right path and so, yeah, I do view it as we're just we're building a new kind of future, and our roles as women who are afforded these opportunities is to help push that further exactly you know, standing on the ancestors and the battles that they fought before us, to, to be, answer this point.

The Trailblazers experience:

Let's talk about the role of you as a board advisor, because I feel everything that you've done in your career and you're talking about being confident in the boardroom and being a voice, those core centre days do you know that they actually helped you? I? Know so many people started off in a core centre and keeping people first of all on the phone, making sure they don't hang up, and then actually sending them something. That is an important soft skill that you're using wherever you go you are so right.

Bianca Bass:

I didn't know it at the time, but you are so, so right and I think there are a few harder jobs in the world than trying to get people to stay on the phone listening to solar panels and yeah, done that. And this is before climate change was even in the public consciousness, so it really was just such an inconvenience anyone that picked up the phone to me. But, yeah, it did a lot and I think again, building up confidence, and you just have this memory bank that you can go back to when times are hard and say you, but you overcame this, this, this and this, and you will be able to do the same with this new situation. So, yeah, thank you for saying that.

Bianca Bass:

I love that, and one of my hiring strategies has always been to ask people tell me about the jobs you did when you were a teenager tell me about your non-shape you, yeah, yeah, I want to know, and when somebody says that they haven't had some of those early experiences, that can be a slight concern for me because I think they do make you and I think it shows a certain amount of work, ethic and drive and just I love people who have a real eclectic set of experiences that come together and make them who they are in a really well-rounded way. So, yes, love the core, centre point also ask about their.

The Trailblazers experience:

If someone's been involved in sports for a very long time, that you know speaks to discipline and consistency and teamwork. That also helps as well in terms of hiring strategy.

Bianca Bass:

What the extra curriculativities are yes, anything that was really important to them or that shaped who they are early on, because that's so much there and I love the question. This is more of a journaling and self-reflection question who were you before the world changed you?

The Trailblazers experience:

yes, wow, before the world changed you, before you got into the rat race, I think before you got into the rat race before the world and its conditioning and career, and you know those financial objectives set in.

Bianca Bass:

Who were you? What were you most curious about, most passionate about? Where did your mind go and your attention and focus go when there weren't all of those external pressures? And so I love that as a question too.

The Trailblazers experience:

That's a very good question. Have you ever been able to answer that for yourself?

Bianca Bass:

Some days yes, some days no. I can answer it thematically. I can pull out certain themes and say, ok, writing has been this one constant for me. So when I feel really removed from myself, it's probably because I haven't read a really good book in a while. I haven't embraced that more culturally curious side of myself. So you can find themes that almost encompass back to yourself when life does get a little bit too much. I definitely think that we evolve as people, so parts of who you were then isn't going to be as applicable now. But yes, thematically, yes, I think it helps.

The Trailblazers experience:

So let's talk about you being a board advisor and now the role of guiding companies strategically and advising organisations on business and strategy. What drew you to the role and what has that been in terms of experience for you?

Bianca Bass:

So my first board position I fell into unexpectedly. I joined a company called 3S Money. It was a FinTech startup. At that point I'm focusing on international business accounts and helping particularly non-resident directors launch in new markets and get access to banking infrastructure. And I remember joining that role and I had been in FinTech when I was younger in the beta C side.

Bianca Bass:

This was a pure beta B play and I really came at it from again total fresh pair of eyes and I looked at what they were doing, I looked at the language they were using and I thought this is not at all inclusive, despite your mission as a company being to promote financial inclusivity. It was a jargon. The brand just wasn't at all welcoming. And so the first six months of that role working myself and a marketing executive very small team was just to start building up that brand, and we built also the very beginnings of an inbound marketing strategy using a blend of multi-channel approach, ppc, some SEO and lots of other marketing acronyms that I won't bore the audience with. But essentially the task in hand was how do we build an audience in a brand for a company that historically hasn't really focused on that and hasn't had a marketing as a prayer for it, and that was in terms of my competitive edge. I didn't come from the industry. I looked at it and I thought you see it this way, I look at it from the consumer's perspective and there are all these ways we can improve it and, over the course of just under two years, ended up building a really successful brand, built at the marketing team and I think because I at that point in my career had a relative amount of confidence to challenge and to bring my suggestions, the CEO and I was really fortunate to be in this position invited me to join the companies.

Bianca Bass:

Because I was really fortunate to be in this position and I didn't see it coming. I thought that my path into board experience would always be as a non-executive director. I didn't think I would be a company director and executive director, but the way it was going, I think I was a voice around the table that added something different and I was working really well with the CEO. We were very much in collaboration and challenging each other as well and bringing new people together and I was enjoying it so much. And so the role I think in their view, was a natural extension of what I'd already been doing because I wasn't just focusing on marketing. I cared about the end-to-end customer experience. I cared about the whole commercial objectives and that was a business that I mean.

Bianca Bass:

3s Money are absolutely fantastic at being very focused on their metrics. They know where they're at at any given point, every day, every hour. They're obsessive about data and that was exactly what I was craving for way back when when I worked at TripAdvisor, so it was really a fantastic fit for me at that point in many ways. And so get invited onto the board regulated company so lots of considerations was also very lucky. One of their former NEDs trained me for a few months on everything that being a board member entails and he's very experienced.

Bianca Bass:

A complete industry veteran helped me so much with understanding what my responsibility was to the shareholders also to the employees and how to challenge if I wasn't sure in a board meeting or I had particular questions. So that was my original path into it. And then, alongside that, I have always been what I'd call consulting, so working with startups, helping them just figure out brand strategy or growth strategy, using what I learn in my day job and then applying it to smaller businesses. But yes, in recent months I've now been focusing on okay board advisor positions. What does that look like? I'm about to start working with a sustainable fashion company which goes back to my original interest. You know, a bit of a full circle moment now that.

The Trailblazers experience:

I'm in a professional area?

Bianca Bass:

Yeah, it is, and so I think for me, what I love about it is that, as somebody who has had a bit of a portfolio career and has done lots of different things and different industries, I like being able to add value in a concentrated amount of time.

Bianca Bass:

I like being able to go in and saying this is what I see and this is opportunity that I've got. I've got this idea, I've got this opportunity for us, I've got this opportunity for us. I see this challenge and for me it all goes back to people, all of it. The thing that I've loved the most in my career is that golden thread of curiosity. It's that building relationships and ultimately understanding different types of founders and how best to work with them. I'm very excited about it. But, yes, that was the how I got to my first board position Unexpected, such a valuable experience and I learned a huge amount about how a company is run, how to build a company, know through this money went through stratospheric growth, absolutely huge growth.

Bianca Bass:

When I joined, we're about 30 employees. By the time I left, we're about 200. That's in just under two years. That's a lot of growth. There was a lot of learnings and, yeah, invaluable experience, and I'm just so looking forward to, in this next phase of my career, bringing a lot of those lessons to smaller companies, because I love the go to market phase, I love just problem solving and I love seeing companies take off. So, yes, that's a little bit about it and I'd really love to hear about your experience as well, coming to your net position. I don't know how much you've spoken about it on the podcast, but I'd love to hear more.

The Trailblazers experience:

I think I always looked at when you're growing up. You always want to say I want to work for the businesses that my parents actually know about and they've heard about. The problem is, like you said, you know really good organizations that I've seen and I started off my career in Germany really good organizations. People stay there and they stay in those roles and they stay there for a very long time. So if there is a role that you're aspiring to, you either have to wait for that person to retire or you're waiting in next in line for four other people. And I said to myself I said, if I really want to grow my career to your point, I have to look for the obscure or unknown brands or the brands or businesses that are smaller and how I can you know value add in terms of thinking about my whole omni channel experience and growth and business development and that commercial side. And I think even as I thought about Ned and board roles, I said, well, you know I've got a hit list in my head of 10 businesses I'd love to sit on a board for, but it feels like there's so many other people waiting in line. So someone told me about have you thought about the startup space and how you can add value there with its FinTech etc. And I said, oh, that's interesting. So a business that's just started, that's got a P and L, you know, that's got a balance sheet, cash flow, and how I can add value from that perspective.

The Trailblazers experience:

And that's sort of how the conversation started and, not knowing how those conversations were going to go, met the founder, had a really good conversation and said, right, this is the direction I'd love to go.

The Trailblazers experience:

He has a financial background and sort of taken it from there and I think that is a secret source that will lead me to more of these roles and to your point of I love the whole fact, even in my current permanent role of joining a business that's really small, you know, seeing it grow, seeing it through various phases, I think for me, just adding to those toolkits of my experience is really important to me. And you mentioned something, bianca, about that thread of being curious, you know, problem solving, an active listener and also interested in just the metrics of a business and how it works. I think those are the things that are sort of leading even you on to actually being a, you know, an executive director. All these things have been sort of adding up, stacking up in. Steven Bartlett talks about filling your buckets because those buckets will help you in the next stage of your life. That's sort of been my experience.

The Trailblazers experience:

We can go on and on.

Bianca Bass:

But yeah, that's sort of how I've seen it. That is exactly. It is about collecting those experiences, and I always say to people that I work with people that are coming up in their careers. People in my teams and friends know your metrics, gather your data points, be very clear on the value that you've added to a company and make sure that they know that value in quantifiable terms. You have to speak the language that a business speaks.

Bianca Bass:

When I started out in brand and content and I see this with a lot of more creative, leaning marketers we do an amazing job. We're brilliant at ideation and adding huge amounts of value to a company. But where we fall short and where I think my career was hitting a bit of a ceiling was that I did not know the business impact that I was having. I didn't know how to read about it. I didn't understand revenue contribution wise what I was doing, and so my CV had that gap in it, and it can be.

Bianca Bass:

You know, if you're a copywriter, you're creating content and you're relatively new in your career, and early on it can be something about open rates on an email campaign. It could be overall revenue growth during that time and the different marketing channels that contributed to it, but know those metrics, get clear on your data points, because when you have those, not only is it easier to get a pay rise internally and get a promotion, but it's easier perhaps most importantly to get other jobs at higher levels if you want to progress quickly. Without those data points it's very difficult to do and I think when I think about that transition from brand marketer to getting to board level, it has been, above all, having access to those data points and really knowing my numbers. That's made all the difference.

The Trailblazers experience:

Yeah, being able to measure your impact from a qualitative and quantitative perspective isn't it is really key. How have I impacted this business in my role in the organization? You see it now in CVs, isn't it? They want a one page of your CV and it's getting straight to the point of how have you impacted that organization In your career so you're recognized as a thought leader. You've featured in major publications. How do you manage expectations and pressures major pressures of being a visible figure in your industry? And a thought leader is important because now, even on the podcast, there will be women looking to the advice, the experiences that you've had. How has that been for you?

Bianca Bass:

It's such a great question and it's something that I reflect on quite a lot. I think the first thing to say is that none of us have any of the answers, and I'm always reminding myself that I have blind spots. I have things that I don't know. I have things that I really want to learn more about. My purpose is to share what I've learned in the hope that it helps people even a little bit, maybe reframe something or gives them a new perspective, but I don't come into it ever knowing or thinking that I'm an expert, because I'll die learning. I like that. I like the fact that I'm a lifelong learner and I really will leave this earth still with so many questions. That's one aspect of it. I know what I know. I also want to keep learning what I don't know.

Bianca Bass:

The second part is that there's definitely pressure when it comes to certain topics or things, that marketing is changing all the time and brand is changing all the time, and because it is such an expansive sector, I focus very much on the real life experiences that I've had rather than overall industry commentary, which I could do, and I definitely have lots of opinions. I've got huge opinions on AI, for example, but I'm not an artificial intelligence expert. Really, going back to this is what I learned from this particular experience, and just always going back to my core values, I think anybody that is putting themselves out there like you are build their personal brand. I think it's really important to start with what are your core values? For me, it's integrity, it's authenticity, it's empathy. Those three values are what I go back to in everything I do. I might not always get it right, I might not know everything, but providing that I'm working with those three values, I feel grounded and rooted in that those things have helped me as tools.

Bianca Bass:

I think also, as a final point on this, I want to have fun with it. I want to experiment and I never view thought leadership as me just sharing what I know. It's a conversation. Everything that I put out there is to start a conversation. I want to be sat next to the people that I'm speaking with. I'm not talking down to them. That, for me, is a really important point.

The Trailblazers experience:

I totally agree.

The Trailblazers experience:

That's why I've really enjoyed this year.

The Trailblazers experience:

One of the goals I'd set for myself was A to set the podcast because I wanted it to be a conversation starter but also an opportunity to give women a voice and be an active listener for them to share their stories.

The Trailblazers experience:

And also attending more I attend lots of e-commerce events. A to understand what's happening in the industry and bring that insight into the conversations I have within the business I work in to find out what new tech, what new tech staffs could help the business be more efficient and support the teams. But also the panel discussions that are happening there seeing people in the industry speak from the experiences of whether they're working for a big four corporate business or a startup or sustainability those conversations where they're being authentic, they're talking about their core values but also how they've added value to that industry, I think has been really interesting. We were at an all bright event where there were these amazing women who are just at the beginning of their careers but they were talking about their experiences with TikTok. I think lived experience is valued more, because you're talking the talk and walking the walk as well, which is really important.

Bianca Bass:

Yeah, exactly that. I love that. That is how we met and really being in those communities and making sure that there's a balance as well. I never just want to be attending events. Where I'm speaking, I want to make sure that I'm also listening. You mentioned active listening earlier. That is another key principle and value for me, and in the conversations that I've had, be it with a one-to-one, with a team member or a broader event where there's lots of people, making sure that I am there as a learner always helps me tremendously.

Bianca Bass:

Look, I think it's an interesting time in our careers as well. You get to a certain level where you're now operating at board level, but there's also still so much more to go, there's so much more to do, and so I never want to be passive. I wonder, I'm curious for you at this stage of your career how do you view your objectives now that you're not in that early stage survival mode, in many ways just building up your experience? Now that it's another phase, it's a new season, if you will, I wonder how do you feel about that and how do you approach it, setting goals for the next 10, 20 years?

The Trailblazers experience:

You know that's a really good question. I've always had like two five-year plans going concurrently in my life. So one has been the personal one, because I'm a single parent. I've raised two amazing boys, 18 and 16. So there was a five-year plan for that and I'm still yet to break even. Now I think I've broken, but not from a financial perspective, bianca. I've broken even and made a good contribution in terms of I've raised two amazing boys who have really great core values and ethics. They're hardworking, they're great personalities. So I think that trajectory is there.

The Trailblazers experience:

And then, on the career perspective, I'm sort of now looking to step into C-suite. I think that's the direction I'd love my role to go building on that board advisory executive career. I think that's the direction I'd love to impart my knowledge and help businesses grow. So I think that's it's a pivotal point, I think, for me the next few years. So definitely one to watch. But what I've really enjoyed is interacting and engaging with so many amazing women in the industry, in other industries. It's really been comforting to know that there's so many great women out there and great men. I've always known about great men in business and fashion and E-com. I think, seeing that they're great women, young, whether they're in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s has been so inspiring and motivating. So I think there's a lot to come. So watch the space, bianca, of where I'm going. I think there are some great opportunities.

Bianca Bass:

Oh, I am watching this space and cheering you on so much, and I love what you're doing with the Trailblazers as well. I think it's fantastic, I think it's needed, and the more conversations that I have like this, the more I realize we are in a new area of business. We are changing things and the generation that are coming up, they have a whole new set of values and they are more discerning about the businesses they buy from, the brand values that they embrace and associate themselves with. So I think that we are in an economic downturn. The world is incredibly difficult with everything that's happening out there right now, and I also see a lot of hope. I have a lot of hope. I have a lot of hope for change and for new ways of working. Something I'm really interested in in the business space is the fractional C-suite role.

The Trailblazers experience:

Yes.

Bianca Bass:

I love this conceptually. I haven't seen it too much in action yet. I do have a few friends in contact that have started fractional CMO roles, and that's something that's on my mind as well. But yeah, I predict huge amounts of change over the next 10 to 20 years. I think that we are just on the cusp of a new way of doing business.

The Trailblazers experience:

I think that's true. You know, really just thinking about learned experience, and how do these fractional CEOs or CFOs or CEOs, add value to a business? I think you know, I think that's always been there in terms of you know, if you see people who've been on boards for a very long time, they are coming from that experience as well. But I think it's going to be even more intentional from people bringing themselves onto boards and organisations. Let's talk about self-care and work-life balance. So you know what makes you think. You know how to prioritise self-care means all these amazing things that we've been doing from a professional perspective.

Bianca Bass:

Well, the first thing to say is that it's really difficult, and I want to be fully open about that because I think it's a conversation that needs to be had more and more. I personally have arrived at a place where I don't believe in work-life balance. Just numerically, the maths doesn't add up because the math is a math thing my favourite expression the math is not math thing, so it doesn't work. So instead, I'm really focused on presence. Wherever I am, I want to be there fully. Where I think things have become more difficult for me is when, for example, I'll be on a vacation, but I'm still reading through all my emails. Or I'll be with family, but I'm still. I'm just going to take a quick work call over there. Wherever I am, I am present, and that has made a huge difference to me, particularly this year.

Bianca Bass:

I've had burnout a few times in my career. I've had to navigate that. I've had to take huge amounts of care of myself. You know I've had alopecia from stress in the past when I was travelling between the US and the UK. I've dealt with acne. I've had lots of small ailments conditions, if you will but they've had a big impact on my confidence. So I've had to learn what messages my body is giving me and what version of self-care works best for me.

Bianca Bass:

And presence has been a really big one for me. That mental shift from if I can't have work-life balance which you know, I love my work, I love my career, I really love I'm a person who is fortunate in the sense that I love to work If I can't have balance because balance is a feasible balance it does not add up. Let me be present, let me be fully present when I'm at work, be at work. When I'm done with work for the day, I am done for the day, and that has been a really helpful shift for me. So I did want to share that because it's relatively recent, but it's been tremendously helpful In terms of broader self-care, I think, having a personal practice of self-compassion and knowing that you're not always going to get it right.

Bianca Bass:

But when you do make certain mistakes or when you feel like, oh, I didn't handle that situation the way that I wanted to, or I was particularly stressed and it resulted in this or that project I could have done better, creating a dialogue with yourself that says, yes, there are lessons to be taken from it, but look at everything else that you're doing and really talking to yourself. Really, it's a work in progress. The reason that I want to speak so candidly about it is that I really value hearing from other leaders and other people who have had careers that I considered to be very successful. I value hearing that. Yes, there's also a lot of struggle alongside that, and we're all just trying to figure it out.

The Trailblazers experience:

I think it's really great that you're being candid about it, because I built my career while I was raising kids and, like you said, it was about being present in the evenings. I would finish projects while they were in bed, for example. So wherever you are, being present and listening to your body, I think is a very good one. I know I'm a morning person, so I'm most creative, active in the morning, so a lot of things I do with you in the morning. There is no one size fits all Work-life balance. It's not linear. It has its ups and downs depending on the phases that you are in your life.

Bianca Bass:

Exactly that Presence over balance. And yeah, sometimes it goes well and sometimes it doesn't, and we have to have that huge amount of compassion and just remind ourselves that we are just all trying the best we can in any given moment. As long as you're taking the lessons from every experience, you can't go wrong.

The Trailblazers experience:

I totally agree. So, bianca, we're circling back. You know where do you see yourself? What is, what does the future hold for you? And then we're going to talk about, you know, trailblazer takeaway tips. We've had some really good conversations, but I think there's some. There are three or four things that we can really summarize and give the audience some food for thought.

Bianca Bass:

I am really passionate about helping early stage companies. So, from everything I've done, and I've really been reflecting actually recently on what is it that I want to do next and what is it that I feel personally the most excited about. And an exercise that I did I took a week off and I wrote out my entire career story. Each job was a chapter, if you will, and it was just for me, but I did it to almost analyze where did I feel the most fulfillment, where was there the most resistance or where was the most difficulty and what are the lessons from each of those experiences. And what I landed on is that I love helping businesses launch.

Bianca Bass:

I really have a huge amount of respect for the bravery and brilliance that it takes to bring a product, to bring a concept, to bring a business to the world and to be able to work with founders to help channel the right message, to help really create community around that, to help understand customers. That is a huge passion of mine. So I want to do a lot more of that, both in perhaps a fractional role for time if it's the right opportunity, or from a board advisory perspective, and then alongside that. So I'm doing a masters at the moment in psychology and neuroscience and mental health, and that has been such a gift. It's been so incredible to understand not only consumer neuroscience more, which is important for my role as a marketing and brand leader, but to understand the teams that I work with more from a mental health perspective, because mental health is a major challenge and conversation that we need to be having more in corporations and in working environments.

Bianca Bass:

So, continuing that masters part time. And then the final thing for me looking forward is I really want to use the success that I've had and any resources that I've been able to build and make sure that I'm channeling them back to causes that I really care about. So that part for me when I think about the bigger, bigger picture is really important and that's a driving factor for me of everything I've done and that you know. If I can really give back in these meaningful ways to these particular causes that align with me, my values, my background, I will leave this earth feeling like I actually did something of meaning.

The Trailblazers experience:

That is amazing and considering your initial view. Remember, at the beginning of your career was to do an MBA and now you've just circled into something else, isn't it?

Bianca Bass:

You know, I feel some of the experiences I've had have been multiple MBAs, so I'm not going to be doing an executive MBA anytime soon.

The Trailblazers experience:

Yeah, you've actually done it through your contributions and yet in your work experience for sure.

Bianca Bass:

I mean, I think I've been very fortunate to work with founders who have taught me so much more than I would learn in a classroom. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't do it if I wasn't curious in the future. Never say never, but right now I don't think it's for me at this point.

The Trailblazers experience:

Yeah, I mean the work experience and your CV speaks for itself. You've done it 10 times over. That's amazing, really, really good, and I will be watching the space to see what you do next. Try your blazer takeaway tips, bianca.

Bianca Bass:

Yes, talk to me.

The Trailblazers experience:

Share with me what your tips are. So if there were three or four things to share with the audience that you've learned I know there are lots of things we've touched on what would they be?

Bianca Bass:

Number one don't be afraid to stand out. If you're the first woman in a certain room, if you're the first person of your background in a company, don't be afraid to stand out. Know that you are a gift to that company, that they need you, they need your perspective and build your personal brand intentionally. I think the market is increasingly saturated. Stand out and do it in a way that feels true to who you are. So the second point definitely know your metrics. Know your data points. Be audacious in sharing those metrics with the people that matter, whether it's within your organization, whether it's somewhere that you potentially want to join. Know your numbers and be bold about knowing those numbers and promote them. Share them. Be very confident in your contributions.

Bianca Bass:

And the third is to always have your values in place. Your values will change as you change. We go through many versions of ourselves, but always go back to those values. What are my core values? How is this particular opportunity maybe deviating away from them? How can I return to them and use them as a framework for every decision that you make, be it a new job or otherwise? And when you have those, I don't think you can go very wrong.

The Trailblazers experience:

Awesome, I mean, you are wise beyond your years, bianca.

Bianca Bass:

Thank you so much and thank you so much for this conversation. You've been so generous with your time. Your wisdom is such a gift to know you. I'm so glad that we met and I will be following your career and this podcast very closely. Thank you for creating a community for us to have these conversations.

The Trailblazers experience:

That is so amazing, bianca, thank you, and I think that was the whole idea, you know to give women a space to just listen to a podcast, listen to someone else's story and be empowered, inspired. So yeah, this has been the Trailblazers Experience podcast. We are the platform that aims really to bring the stories to life with women in their career journeys. And see you next time.