Lisa Sharapata: CMO Leadership with purpose through Community & Culture

Ever wondered how marketing principles can be the secret sauce to building high-performing cultures? Join us as we sit down with Lisa Sharapata, the dynamic Chief Marketing Officer of the Arbinger Institute, who shares her fascinating career journey from a graphic designer to a strategic leader and now a CMO. Lisa dives into how her passion for understanding audiences and strategy led her to pivot across various roles and industries, ultimately finding her calling in resolving people problems within organizations. Discover how these marketing insights can transform leadership and culture in your workplace.

Lisa opens up about the personal and professional hurdles she's faced, We discuss the importance of adaptability, resilience, and knowing when to push forward or step back within a team. Highlighting her commitment to giving back, Lisa shares her experiences , emphasizing the value of community involvement and vulnerability in fostering personal and professional growth.

We also explore the vital topic of women's empowerment in the industry, reflecting on the importance of creating inclusive environments that promote psychological safety. Lisa delves into her experiences and the need for women to support each other rather than compete, drawing from Arbinger's concepts to advocate for understanding individual motivations. Through her inspiring journey, Lisa emphasizes the continuous growth, open communication, and knowledge sharing essential for a successful career. Don't miss out on the empowering insights and practical takeaways from this candid and thought-provoking conversation.

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Transcript

The Trailblazers Experience : 0:12

Welcome to another episode of the Trailblazers Experience podcast, where we have candid conversations with amazing women sharing their career stories. My next guest is Lisa Sharapata, cmo of the Arbinger Institute, and she's a seasoned experience leader in the industry, and I'm really looking forward to having this conversation. Good morning, different time zones. Obviously, it's morning there, it's afternoon here. How are you? I'm wonderful.

Lisa Sharapata: 0:42

How are you?

The Trailblazers Experience : 0:43

Great, we finally have a summer here in good old England, so we're embracing it as much as we can Well, it's nice.

Lisa Sharapata: 0:52

Yeah, actually, my sister lives in England and I hear from her all the time she actually has a boat and when she can get out on it, I know it's nice, exactly.

The Trailblazers Experience : 1:03

Interesting. I was at a networking event and all people were talking about how they're going to be going on their boats and how they're going along the coast, so it's now something that everybody's just going to be doing if they can. So if you have a boat, chapeau to you as well. Yeah, I'm still waiting for that invite, by the way. So, lisa, let's talk about your journey from serious senior marketing roles to now chief marketing officer at the Albany Institute is really impressive. Can you briefly just share your career path and what led you to focus on leadership development and culture transformation, because I'm sure in your early 20s that probably wasn't at the top of your list.

Lisa Sharapata: 1:46

Yeah, I mean, honestly, in my early 20s, being a CMO wasn't even on the top of my list. I was working in an ad agency and I was in graphic design and that was my dream. I was pretty excited about that, but I think over time what I really started to learn about myself is I want to be involved in the strategy, I want to understand why we're doing something and to even be as active in my job as a designer. I needed to really understand the audience, what we're trying to communicate to them, what do they care about. So, through the course of really starting to explore more of that and getting more involved in that strategic thinking, I ended up moving in-house and then I ended up getting more into honestly into the tech. Space is where I spent the last decade of my career before coming here.

Lisa Sharapata: 2:39

But after kind of a decade stint in B2B tech, which was pretty intense, and before that a lot of different types of experience in different types of organizations, there was kind of one theme that has carried through all of it, which is people. Problems are the problems that are always getting in the way of success in the organizations that I've been in and the organizations that I've been in and it's kind of sad to step back and said I want to do something that I really think is going to make a difference. You know, beyond revenue, intelligence or some sort of new, the newest and greatest marketing technology or something that I'm, you know, marketing and selling, which is great and it's helpful and I use it and I love it. But for me, the biggest difference, and I feel like the place that I can make the most impact now, is helping other leaders and other organizations really see that the people problems are the things that are holding them back from greatness and success and, you know, helping them kind of get out of their own way.

The Trailblazers Experience : 3:45

Yeah, that's so interesting. I think there also comes a point. Like you said, you do the hustle and bustle of whether it's tech, whether it's marketing and delivering the tasks and the objectives and formulating strategies, but you sort of now want to have a purpose, you know as to what's the so what of everything that I'm doing and how can I then help businesses and also people in a way. Do you think you've been applying marketing principles as well in creating a high performing culture within organizations as part of that?

Lisa Sharapata: 4:18

Oh, I mean, I guess, when you say marketing principles, when I go back to really what I think is great marketing, it is understanding your audience, it is really knowing the market and you've got to have product market fit and you need to make sure that you're clearly communicating the value, and so I do think that a lot of those things also transfer over into, especially leadership teams and internally understanding the culture that exists, understanding where the challenges lie and really you know seeing the people in your organization and the challenges that they're facing and how do you help them overcome them to reach their full potential. Yeah, yes, they definitely go hand in hand.

The Trailblazers Experience : 5:02

Yeah, so talk to me about the Arbinger Institute. What it is exactly, what is the Institute and what is it you do there?

Lisa Sharapata: 5:11

So the Arbinger Institute's been around for over 40 years and it started off with a couple of actually one book and this principle that was based on outward mindset.

Lisa Sharapata: 5:27

One book and this principle that was based on outward mindset Really the premise is seeing people as people who matter as much as we do and getting to the heart of those, like those relationships and, you know, getting out of our own, like our own way and just our own objectives and our own initiatives, and really realizing, like our impact on other people and how we co-exist to you know, achieve objectives and results together, how we're making it harder to actually get where we are.

Lisa Sharapata: 5:54

And so those principles again started off with books and materials, and then organizations started asking Arbinger to come in and help them make these kinds of transformations. And so it's really only been in like the last kind of decade or so that there's been a focus on really bringing these leadership, development and culture transformation solutions into organizations. And you know now we're really focused on that, although I will say we still do a lot of research. All of our work is research-backed and we are launching the fourth edition of our book, leadership and self-deception, later this summer as well. You know all that's still intact. And also like how do we, how do we bring it home? How do we help people actually make those changes?

The Trailblazers Experience : 6:45

That's amazing. So a strong emphasis on mindset, over behavioral change. Just looking back on you as a leader, what do you think are sort of the core values and ethics that you're bringing to the table based on your experience that you've gathered over the years?

Lisa Sharapata: 7:03

I guess personally and this is why Arbinger just seemed like such a natural and good fit for me is that one of the things I learned, I guess, as a young human teenager, is that when someone comes and tells me I need to change my behavior, I rebel. I was like, okay, you don't want me to do that, I'll figure out a sneaky way to do it instead, right? So, um, you know, it's really learned early on that me going and telling people what to do or how to do it isn't going to work and I really need to understand, like what motivates them, what's their carrot, like what inspires them, you know, to to get up in the morning and bring their best self, and that's different for everyone, and so that's what I think I've always brought to the table as a leader that and I guess also this rising mentality of, like you know, seeing the goal and always being creative and whatever it takes to figure out a way to get there. But but knowing like, okay, I'm pushing too hard, we need to regroup. You know the team's not with me and you know we need to like pause and and work on, like fixing some stuff that's going on internally before we can drive again, I'm like just always going to have like a good sense of, I guess, good instincts when it comes to like when can we push, when can we drive, when do we need to pull back and work through some issues and challenges.

Lisa Sharapata: 8:38

And I think that some of that you can learn and be taught. Some of it, like at least for me, I think it just was kind of a natural instinct that I've learned to really tap into and pay attention more and more to that and, like my, my nature is to just keep driving but knowing, like you know, you gotta, you gotta bring everyone with you, you gotta pause here, like that's been. I think the biggest learnings for me again is like seeing other people matter as much as I do. I can't get there alone. I need everyone you know to be, you know, in it with me, otherwise, once we get there, like what's the point? I reckon, if you know, be able to sustain it anyway.

Lisa Sharapata: 9:18

So yeah those would be some of the things I would definitely encourage other readers to consider, if they're alive to what's going on in their team.

The Trailblazers Experience : 9:33

And it feels like you've always enjoyed questioning the scapes quo, because you've always seen that there is a way. There is a way we can make this happen. There is a way for us to progress and and make things better, which is on on one side, it's a it's a positive trait to have, but also it can. It can also catch in your tracks. So if you think, lisa, yeah it can.

Lisa Sharapata: 9:55

And I'll say I mean that's one thing early on, especially in my career, I would get really frustrated and you know I just had to learn like take a step back, take a deep breath, go with the flow a little. And you know I just had to learn like take a step back, take a deep breath, go with the flow a little bit more. You know me, trying to like push a boulder uphill is a lot more work than me kind of figuring out like how to hoist it up with a group of people. You know it. Just yeah, it did. It took a lot of maturing and learning over time what works and what doesn't work.

The Trailblazers Experience : 10:29

That's all the challenges you've had throughout your career, so you know you've had a great one and had some interesting roles. What are some of the setbacks that you faced, and what have those setbacks taught you?

Lisa Sharapata: 10:38

Yeah, I mean, I think, a couple of things and first of all, you know some of my stuff that's just personal in my own life going through a divorce with two little kids, and you know just things like that where I've had to make, like, prioritize other things besides my career. And then there's been other things like B2B, tech. There's a lot of mergers, acquisitions, funding, challenges. Figuring out even just what that world was about was definitely a challenge for me. So I mean, those were. You know, I feel like every kind of time I've gotten to a place where I'm like, okay, we're good a curveball some thrown at me. And you know, I think honestly, I'm kind of again come to the conclusion that that is pretty normal.

Lisa Sharapata: 11:23

And what I've also learned is like the people who can handle that kind of pressure and deal with that under pressure, they're the ones that thrive. And so every time now, when I get in those moments and I'm like this is, you know, so frustrating or this isn't working or something, it's like learning to take that step back, take that deep breath and just figure out like, how do I pivot or what, what changes do I need to make? What could? What adjustments, you know, can I make here what, what can I control? And and focusing on that. And so I mean really, I mean you name it. I feel like anything you could bring up I would say, yeah, I've dealt with that. You know, from being the only woman in the room to you know, I got everything in between, but I think it's just that's been more of just kind of being able to be adaptable and resilient.

The Trailblazers Experience : 12:21

There's nothing to be said. You know there's strength in vulnerability and acknowledging that. You know you're only human, that you will have some personal challenges and you need to just go through each challenge as it is, you know, break it into little, bite-sized chunks and deal with it as it goes, because there will always be something, isn't it, lisa? In life.

Lisa Sharapata: 12:42

Yeah, you know, and I love what you just said there, because growing up and into my 30s, being vulnerable, just it wasn't in my vernacular. Actually, it was going through my divorce, where I learned to be vulnerable and that it was okay to accept help and it was okay to admit failure. I mean that was the biggest life lesson I think I could have ever gotten and learning from that and being able to apply what you're saying, being able to say like I don't have the answer, or I messed up, or this is not working. I have to accept that and I need help. Those were things that were not a part of my DNA. So, yeah, I think that that is essential and I'm really glad you made that point.

The Trailblazers Experience : 13:50

And that's the one common denominator that we need to embrace the strength and vulnerability, because it gives us the space to make the decisions that are right for us in that moment and that will, you know, push us forward, because sometimes certain things have to take a step back for you to focus on other things as well. Well, has that impacted? Um, you know giving back because, beyond your professional role, you also serve as a g10 card ambassador and advisor for for hushley. Do you want to talk a bit about that and what that means to you outside of work?

Lisa Sharapata: 14:17

yeah, absolutely, and I'll say so. Go to market partners. I I'm in peak community, I'm also in pavilion and all of those things. What I've learned through all of this is community. Community without a community, your commodity is something I heard quite a while ago and it's really stuck with me.

Lisa Sharapata: 14:39

Surrounding yourself with support, surrounding yourself. I am call it like my own board, my board, my board members, my team, the people who are going to give me direction and help me out when I need advice or have a problem with something. So I definitely think you know that's been part of me even seeking out like help and support and guidance. And then the giving back part, like when I joined PE, that was really you know me trying to break through into the C-suite and I started doing a series on this and like bringing people along with me on my journey and trying to help other people do the same thing. Yeah, I definitely believe in just. First of all, the things that feel the best to me are always when I'm helping other people, and also I feel like I learn the most in those experiences as well. So I think all of those things yes, I mean they're things that, over time, have become more and more important to me in my career and just my personal life, yeah.

The Trailblazers Experience : 15:42

I love that. What you said about if it's not a dark community, then it's a dark commodity. That's a word to remember, isn't it? Because then you're just really at the bottom line and money at the core of it as well.

Lisa Sharapata: 15:55

Absolutely.

The Trailblazers Experience : 15:57

Let's talk about self-care, and the reason why I always bring this up is we always see people's LinkedIn profiles or the shiny profiles that we see on websites and we say, oh my goodness, this woman is superwoman, superpower, she's going at 200 miles an hour, but self-care is so important. We've seen burnouts. We've seen people having mental breakdowns. How do you take care of you?

Lisa Sharapata: 16:24

Another great question I'll just like I've got a whole journey and story that goes along with that, but I'll try to synthesize it and say this is that I think for me, covid was a very eye-opening moment in time where myself and I know a lot of other people kind of had to pause, had to to take a look at what they're doing and make a lot of adjustments and life just forced upon us, right and so I know, and we lost a family member during that time to COVID and just some other things too, and it was like you know what, what is this all? To what end is this all about on all four? And so I mean we my husband and I and my two daughters we moved from Chicago to Charlotte, north Carolina. I switched industries. I mean I had like for me, I had to completely change my environment in order to really change my focus and reprioritize myself, self-care.

Lisa Sharapata: 17:24

And you know part of why I wanted to be in the Charlotte area, north Carolina, is I wanted the four seasons, but I wanted to be outside. I wanted to be able to go hiking in the morning. I wanted to be, you know, more sunshine, more like the things that I know really help me in my health and when I feel my best, and I wanted it just to be like integrated into my daily life and make it as easy as possible for me to to prioritize those things and I'll just say is like I now it's like my first two hours of my morning is for me and I I have like, if I don't do that, I can just tell the rest of my day is totally thrown off, and you know so.

Lisa Sharapata: 18:04

But I really we had to like get out of the hustle and bustle, shift focus in my career. I had to totally rip off a bandaid and make some very intentional changes in order to do it. So I'll just say it doesn't just happen by itself. You have to prioritize yourself, otherwise you know you're just going to keep doing all the things that everybody else wants you to do.

The Trailblazers Experience : 18:30

Yeah, I mean yeah, that's amazing. I think the pandemic was a step change for a lot of you know people. Some people thrived, Some people made a big pivot for themselves. So, on one hand, the fact that you've come out the other side and the things that matter to you are your priorities is brilliant and hopefully inspiring someone with that message along the way.

Lisa Sharapata: 18:52

I'll just say it's so worth it, like, what are you waiting for, elf? If you're one like thinking I, you know, I really want to do this, I need to do this for myself. I've always wanted to do this, or I should try yoga, or I should try that, Just do it.

The Trailblazers Experience : 19:09

What are you waiting for? It happens, isn't it, that you fail and you just try something else instead. Yeah, yeah. Now networking and building connections. We hear about how important it is, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're rising the ranks in the business that you're working for, whether you're a startup person. How has that helped you in your journey? And just share with me, even if some tips on how networking has helped you reconnect with whether it's investors, mentors or industry peers in the various stages of your career, in your life.

Lisa Sharapata: 19:47

Yeah, I mean again back to you know, when I started off and you know, just graphic design agency, like I was not thinking about those things and I didn't have it. You know wasn't like born into this great like social network of you know, all these people at my fingertips that I could just reach out to and get a job. So it's been a lot of hard work and then it's really been just over time me learning that. Back to this if you're, if you're don't have a community around you, you are a commodity, like you don't. You need that support and you know, really being proactive and seeking out the people that, first of all, like I feel like they get me, but I also really admire respect and just never being afraid to ask, like that was one of the things that I think was my strength is I just I didn't, I didn't get in my own way. I was never afraid to say can you help me figure this out, do you? It looks like on LinkedIn, like once LinkedIn came around to you, that was this genius. Like you know, you can see this person knows this person. Like I'd really like an introduction. I'm trying to get into this people.

Lisa Sharapata: 21:03

You know what I've learned she was like people love to help other people. You know it's very rare that someone's like, no, I'm not gonna make. Yeah so, and when they do find, find another path, like it's. You know they said no like what have you lost?

Lisa Sharapata: 21:19

I've had its grassroots is, and just hard work and also reciprocation. Like again when I, like some of the communities I've joined or being on boards or whatever it is me saying like how can I help you? It's not just giving or taking, it's got to be giving, it's got to be giving. Yeah, I just. But the more and more I've done that I found, the more, you know, things have just kind of started to naturally fall into place too, because then people are like, oh, I know someone who would be really good at this or they'll vouch for you if you like me. That you know you're like, hey, can you help me? Any day I would like to talk to this person in this organization. You know they're much more willing to. So yeah, it's been essential and I don't. I would never be here if I'd been under a rock the whole time.

The Trailblazers Experience : 22:11

And there's something you've said about paying it forward, isn't it? I think that's the most important thing of remembering the person who actually took your phone call and is paying it forward just to help someone else, isn't it so that we continue that cycle of positivity and lifting up and inspiring.

Lisa Sharapata: 22:29

Yeah, 100%, 100%. I mean I should always. I don't know, I'm just, I'm always even like, if I have the sense that somebody I can see it, someone's like struggling with something, like how meaningful and helpful is it to them if you reach out and offer a helping hand, even if they don't take it? You know, those are the kinds of things that people remember, it sticks with them and at least for me, like it's the people that have, you know, really gone above and beyond for me, that like I just respect and admire so much and appreciate.

The Trailblazers Experience : 23:07

You know, I don't know I feel like that's what it's all about in the end, yeah, and similarly with you know, if we talk about women empowerment, I'm such a strong advocate. I feel girl power we need to just uplift as much as we can. How are you championing women's empowerment and what changes would you like to see in the industry to create more opportunities for women?

Lisa Sharapata: 23:32

Yeah, you know, it's an interesting question and I think about it quite a bit and I'm actually going to an empowered CNO event that Sixth Sense is hosting best month and it's it's all women and I love that experience because it really is women lifting women, other women, up and sharing kind of some of their kind of secrets and like how they've gotten where they are, and it's really great networking as well. But, um, I don't think it's always that rosy. I've also seen, I think, a lot of women who feel threatened by other women and almost the opposite of that I've seen in my career as well, where they want to be the most intelligent woman in the room. That is their status symbol, that's the thing that makes them unique and important and special, and so you come in and start, you know, putting your own two cents in or whatever, and a lot of women feel threatened by that. So I've I've seen kind of both sides of it and I'll just say that my opinion is life is way too short.

Lisa Sharapata: 24:43

You know, it just goes back to a lot of what Arbinger's work's about too, this kind of we call it being in the box, and it's like you're either kind of, in this, worse than or better than space.

Lisa Sharapata: 24:54

Or you can be in an I deserve space, or need to be seen as space, and some of these concepts, like I hadn't ever heard of until I came to Arbinger, but when I started realizing like this person is actually they're in this worse than space or they need to be seen as space.

Lisa Sharapata: 25:12

And it's not about me, it is about them.

Lisa Sharapata: 25:25

But trying to get to know them, understand, like, the challenges that they have experienced and what has made them feel threatened or made them feel like they need to be seen in a certain way and they're not and I think, also really helped me kind of bridge some of those gaps and build some of those relationships with other women that you know otherwise I wouldn't have, because, frankly, like I think we also especially the strongest women I know have a lot of drive or are competitive. Those are some of the things that get us to where we are. So then, how do you also embrace a more feminine side and lift other women up without feeling like you have to compete with them and keep them down, you know? So, yeah, I mean it's definitely been a really unique journey or, I guess, just interesting journey too, that I've spent a lot of time reflecting on in the last couple of years as I've learned more of Arbinger's work and like really understanding why, you know, people are the way they are and how to, you know, break down some of those walls.

The Trailblazers Experience : 26:30

I think that's where it comes to why it's so important as a leader, or even in organizations, to foster an inclusive environment, because understanding the different backgrounds that people have come from that have probably led them to act in that particular way, you know, feeling that they need to be seen or need to be heard. It might be something where they're thinking this is an opportunity I can't miss, that. There's a better way of articulating yourself, but I think fostering a culture of inclusion and belonging and understanding what position you're in and how can we support this person to become the best version of themselves, I think is really key.

Lisa Sharapata: 27:04

Yeah, 100%. I mean something else that I hadn't really I hadn't heard this term or really I guess understood it before I came to Arbinger but this concept of psychological safety. Google actually did research on the most productive teams, the highest performing teams, and what made them the most productive One, the highest performing teams, and what made them the most productive One of the top five things, and the thing that they kind of came back to is kind of the thing that if you don't have this, nothing else works. It's psychological safety and just starting to really understand that. It's like if I don't feel comfortable, if I don't feel included and I don't feel like I belong, first of all I don't feel psychologically safe, but it's even like another level of. I also feel like I'm free to speak my mind and that something's not going to be held against me later. I'm not going to be like lashed out at or talked about behind my back. You know, that is what really starts to create innovation and connection with people. When I truly feel like I can share my ideas, I can share pieces of myself. I'm not going to be rejected if people don't like them. That vulnerable.

Lisa Sharapata: 28:23

I have to feel safe and to give my best self and to be willing to put myself out there Even when I don't like have the answers, um, like I've been worked for bosses or I don't. Come to the other problem If you don't have the solution and it's like, well, I know there's this big problem and if I can't talk about it, eventually I'm going to leave. When I leave is when I'm going to tell HR all the problems, and by then it's too late. So, yes, 100%. I think that it's becoming more and more talked about. I still think there's that we've had that have created bias for us in our lives and everyone is unique in that. Acknowledging that too makes it, you know, kind of makes or breaks it. Because if you think that it's, you know just on paper we've got this diverse um team that that's not going to create inclusion and belonging. That alone isn't going to do it. You really have to get real.

The Trailblazers Experience : 29:48

Yeah, and it comes down to the people, isn't it? Like you said, everyone's had different lived experiences and upbringings and that plays a massive factor, so just assuming that everyone's just going to get along and do what needs to be done you need to understand and foster those environments is really important. So, nisa, you have had an amazing journey. I mean, you've had sort of like both sides of the coin. You know the entrepreneurship and then, obviously, now where you are now as CMO, which part have you enjoyed and where do you see yourself next? Where do you see yourself going?

Lisa Sharapata: 30:24

I will say I really enjoy where I am right now and again, it was very intentional in moving this direction but, you know, also getting into a role. What I really like about being in this CMO role and where I see myself going is maybe even expanding upon it. More is, I love connecting all the dots, I love being able to see the big picture and, like that north star, where we need to go, and coordinating all the things that need to happen to get there. That's where I want to be. I really enjoy that part of my role, you know, and working with all the different people and teams that it takes to make something happen, more than the marketing part, more than the creative part, more than you know all the other things that I've done in my career, and that's been the thing that just kind of has kept motivating me to go kind of higher.

The Trailblazers Experience : 31:19

Yeah, and it feels like a full circle moment, isn't it, with maturity and age, where you start saying, right, that experience there actually helped me learn this and that's helping in this situation and now I understand this team. It's an empowering moment, isn't it, when you realize all those moments where you were probably I don't know, under your desk, crying or not, or just walking out saying I can't believe this.

The Trailblazers Experience : 31:43

It's like a full circle going yes, you're now an oracle of wisdom. You now are the person everyone is looking up to. That it took a while to sort of get there.

Lisa Sharapata: 31:54

Well, I still have those moments. I mean, even yesterday I reached out to one of my peers. I'm like, can you give me some advice, how would you handle this situation? And she gave me a really great suggestion. You know, and I think that's the thing too, is you always have to be open to feedback and willing to take a look at something from a different direction, at least for me. That's how I continue to grow, at least for me, but that's how I continue to grow. If I think it was the day, I think I know it all the day, I fall flat on my face yeah, and also like the CMO role, chief marketing officer you know that didn't exist a few years ago.

The Trailblazers Experience : 32:33

There was a chief financial officer, a CEO and that was it. But now that there's different range of C-suite, because understanding the power of people and product and consumer at a high level is really important. So there are careers that will probably be invented in the next five or 10 years that are. There's so much opportunity, I guess, as to where you can go, isn't it?

Lisa Sharapata: 32:57

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think CMO has been around for a while, but then CRO, which is a revenue role, and now there's always kind of this like well, who owns what and who should report to who? And to your point, I mean, I think there's I'm seeing a lot more, with even people in culture roles being elevated into C-suite roles, being like experience officers, you know, just really starting. I think people are just becoming more alive fast, that humanity is in everything we do and it matters, and that you know we need to be considering the human experience as much as anything else definitely, definitely, lisa.

The Trailblazers Experience : 33:38

We're now at the point where we're talking about trailblazer takeaway tips for the audience, things you would tell your younger self, your mature self, women in our age, women older, just women all over in terms of takeaway tips to give them as an addicts for their journey moving forward, yeah, I mean, there's a few things that I try to constantly remind myself of.

Lisa Sharapata: 34:03

We talked about some of them, but one of them that I didn't mention is this kind of notion of inspecting what you expect, and it's kind of the flip of like. I remember somebody saying to me a long time ago, like what did you think was going to happen, you know? And it's like before you get to that point, right, you know. And it's like before you get to that point, right, like pausing before, like when you sense that something's off, and really taking a step back and taking the time to inspect what's going on and think about what are the possible outcomes if we continue on this path, right, and so, even just as a human being in your career, thinking okay, so I'm here, these are the dynamics like, do I really think there's a path forward for me here? If I don't, what changes do I need to make? If I do, what? Maybe relationships do I need to work on building, and so I think that for me, is kind of one of the biggest things.

Lisa Sharapata: 35:03

And then I guess, on the other side of it is just this notion that everyone is going through something all the time.

Lisa Sharapata: 35:10

That means your boss, that means the person that you're having the biggest conflict with at work, like there is something else going on in their lives besides just what you're seeing. And trying to keep that perspective, I guess, has also just really helped me to just like let go of some of my frustration and try to see the humanity in them. And and usually that is when we have those like breakthrough moments that we that I can really like figure out how to connect or help solve the problem or at the very least like detach myself from the frustration and the head banging on the wall, um, you know, and and just finding kind of re-centering on that, so that you know, because I'm, I know we're none of us are at our best selves when we're, we're just banging our head on the wall or trying to push a boulder uphill by ourselves. So I would just say, when you feel yourselves in those moments, take a step back that's what you expect and consider that the other person is probably going through something in their life that you don't know about.

The Trailblazers Experience : 36:19

Lisa brilliantly said. It was such a pleasure speaking to you. It's evident that you've been through an important and intense personal and professional journey which has led you to this point, and we're all growing. I've learned so much just even listening to you Things for me to take away and intersect, you know, and that's been great for our audiences as well. So thank you very much.

Lisa Sharapata: 36:44

You bet. Thank you, Ntola, for having me. It's been a pleasure.

The Trailblazers Experience : 36:48

Awesome. So this has been the Trailblazers Experience Podcast. You know where to find us and tell another woman about the podcast. Thank you very much.