EP46 Billie O'Connor : C-Suite Leader Crafting Success through Strategic Leadership

Discover the transformative power of finance through the captivating journey of Billie O'Connor, the financial strategist and mind behind Nova, as we unravel her progression from finance skeptic to strategic maestro. In our latest episode, Billie's narrative transcends mere numbers; it embodies the essence of data-driven leadership across diverse sectors. Witness firsthand how mastering the finances of a business is akin to unlocking a secret code, one that can propel both operations and outcomes to new heights. For anyone curious about the influence of finance in retail and beyond, Billie's story serves as a riveting testament to the importance of understanding a business from the ground up.

Prepare to be enthralled by our robust conversation on the art of crafting high-performance teams, where we underscore the critical role of attitude and potential over just experience. I share invaluable insights on the dynamics of building teams that excel, and managing stakeholder relationships with a blend of authenticity and strategic finesse. Whether it’s handling tough discussions or aligning communication with organizational goals, our episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for those balancing the delicate act of meeting investor expectations while staying true to their company’s mission.

In the spectrum of leadership, trust and adaptability shine as indispensable elements, and our discussion with Billie illuminates these concepts with practical depth. We dissect the essence of successful business transactions and the significance of aligning communication styles to various audiences, always anchored in the pivotal foundation of trust. Moreover, we delve into the personal pursuit of passion and balance, recognizing these as the catalysts that infuse our professional lives with vigor and meaning. For both seasoned and emerging leaders, this episode is a guide to maintaining authenticity as you navigate the path to success.

Chapters
00:11 Introduction and Career Journey
05:10 Using Numbers and Data to Make Informed Decisions
09:36 Adaptability and Self-Awareness in Leadership
13:13 Fostering Trust and Calling Out Bad Behavior
14:17 Managing Stakeholder Relationships for Transaction Success
29:58 Defining Work-Life Balance and Self-Care
34:37 Building Connections and Sharing Experiences
39:53 The Importance of Self-Awareness and Curiosity
42:07 Future Aspirations: Working with Smart People and Learning

Watch episode on Youtube :https://youtu.be/6YRnmzBhpgA
Find Billie :
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/billie-oconnor
NOVA  : https://uk.linkedin.com/company/nova-your-peer-to-peer-networking-group

Listen : to the audio version Apple Spotify .Amazon Music Google Podcasts
Watch and subscribe to my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@Thetrailblazersexperience
Follow Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/thetrailblazersexperience/

Transcript

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 0:12

Welcome to the Trailblazers Experience podcast, the podcast where we have candid conversations with women sharing their career journeys. My next guest is Billie O'Connor, a seasoned C-Suite leader with over 20 years of finance expertise, held CFO roles across various industries and brands. She is CEO and founder of Nova, a senior leadership network with over 500 leaders supporting women in leadership. Welcome, billie, thank you. Thanks for having me. How are you? Good, it's Friday for me, so I'm great. Exactly, I feel like this podcast has been a long time coming and so excited for you to share your journey, impart your knowledge and inspire someone out there.

Billie O'Connor: 0:56

It's nice to be on the podcast and it's been a long time coming because we're busy people. There's lots going on. It's been a long time coming because we're busy people. There's lots going on, that's it.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 1:04

And I remember when you said to me with the podcast, just keep going and keep telling people about it. I think it resonates with so many women from different areas and I think this is going to be an exciting one. So let's talk about your career journey. Obviously, I've described illustrious, seasoned career in the finance world, but from starting out as a chartered accountant, becoming the founder of, ceo of Nova and CFO of businesses, how did your career journey actually start?

Billie O'Connor: 1:38

Well, I didn't start with a desire to finance, that's for sure, and to be honest, I'm still not a massive fan of finance. What I'm a fan of is how you can use numbers, data and information to make informed decisions. Um, so I only discovered what I would call proper finance at university. So I finished my A-levels, actually did languages through A-levels, and decided I was going off to Cambridge to do an languages degree and I visited and got a conditional off that and then actually I'm really done with some worlds at hand. My A levels ended up with like a B, c and an E and said what am I going to do? And so I did a business degree to take the time to work out and during that discovered finance modules and there's always a right answer at that stage of finance. So as a result I can say well, I know exactly what I'm doing, really enjoyed it. But they realized you could use it to change minds and change decisions, because people like facts, generally speaking, and they want to hear about data. So I started in that route. I decided that that's what I wanted to do. But in parallel I was offered, bizarrely, a graduate scheme with an IT business. So I went and did a graduate scheme and learned lots about IT right at the very beginning, whether that was from password resets and Active Directory through how to set up mailboxes and all kinds of stuff as part of the Metropols and Police.

Billie O'Connor: 3:05

Whilst deciding that I was going to do a career in finance and that kind of jarred because, whilst both are really different skills, I really decided finance was the way to go. So my career has been very much finance-focused and there's been quite a lot of retail and brands, as you called out at the beginning. But what I've made sure is, every time I put into a business, I've got into a different area. So it might be IT for finance, it might be IT for operations, it might be IT specifically for logistics, it might be IT for product, it might be finance for product. So there's been lots of different versions of finance that mean you learn every part of the business.

Billie O'Connor: 3:47

So you're not just bringing someone in to do numbers. You can go in and have a conversation about a wide range of topics. Have we got the right talent? Well, let's see what our KPIs are telling us. When it comes to retention, have we got the right information? Well, let's see how do we make a decision. So I think for me, the career through finance has been how you help make better decisions along the way, and the better you get at that, quite frankly, the more profitable you can be, because you can foresee things happening, you can model what could happen and you can lead effectively, at this stage, a board on what the right route could be.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 4:23

That is so interesting. It's sort of as if your career trajectory has allowed you to work cross-functionally across various departments, whichever business that you've gone into, and sort of making finance sexy in a way, isn't it? Because you can slot into.

Billie O'Connor: 4:41

I do think it's quite funny. In your earlier stage of your career, you were referred to as a support function.

Billie O'Connor: 4:46

And I totally understand why at that stage, because you're going along and providing what you're asked for. I think that switch happens once you become quite savvy into no hang on. I'm going to come in and lead the conversation because I actually already know what's going on and I need to show you and get you on that same path. You'll then bring in the expertise of your function and again that will get to a good decision, rather than you just tell me what you think the data needs to show and I see if it does or doesn't.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 5:13

Yeah, yeah, we've also talked about the fact that you have experience working across different industries, from digital, e-commerce, physical retail. How has that shaped your leadership style and approach to driving business transformation and change?

Billie O'Connor: 5:31

I am very grateful to have started in my earlier part of my career where I worked for Debenhams and Welton Spencer, both really great companies, different sizes but still big companies and very different stages. When was at devnums, they had just gone into private ownership um, under a private equity owner, and when I went into loxford's, as they were still uh, officially listed and very, very different styles to everything. So I think, even though they were both uh retailers that predominantly at that time were bricks and water, there were differences I can even tell at the earliest stage of my career in how decisions were made, how they were run, what we focused on. And I think it's been brilliant for myself, and I know you included, to have gone through our career and seeing the huge shift towards digital and how companies have really all of us.

Billie O'Connor: 6:22

You know it's not the struggle to find what that balance is, because the consumer changes their mind. You know, yes, they want to go digital but they miss the experience of being in the store, but then actually all the convenience of being able to do it on their mobile. You know we have the rise of desktop type transactions that then switch to mobile and suddenly you know people weren't necessarily ready, ready and I think, with all of those changing factors, the leaders that are doing well right now, the ones I really respect, are the ones that do listen, learn and adapt very quickly. I think those who say, well, this, this is how we do it, or this is who we are, this is how we grow. You know, sometimes they feel like they don't want to move away from that because that's what the brand stands for.

Billie O'Connor: 7:02

But I think your style of leadership is completely separate to a brand it's it's how you get the best out of people and how you get the best out of other resources. So I remember working for Alliance Healthcare, which is part of the Alliance Boots group, which later merged with Walgreens. We had an international team. Some of my team were based overseas. So the concept of remote management how to manage on a outcomes basis, not on an hours at your desk basis that was stuff you were taught and you learn from your leaders above you as standard and I think a lot of people in global businesses take that for granted. Then you go into a very bricks and mortar London based business that doesn't have anybody remote and there's a very different style and I think people can struggle to move between the two.

Billie O'Connor: 7:47

That happened for me pre-covid and then covid hit and there was only a handful of us that could switch straight into. This is how you manage remotely. This is how you manage by outcomes. This is where you don't care what time people are at their desks. You just need things done, and I think that's a really big part of the leadership journey knowing how to get the best out of the team that you have.

Billie O'Connor: 8:06

If you've got a younger generation, you need to spend more time with them. You need to get them skilled up, you need them sharing time with people and you need to foster that kind of creation. If you've got really skilled senior people, you need to find a way to get the best out of them, the way that it works for them as well as delivers what the company needs. So I think my ability to adapt is definitely something I've learned from the different types of businesses I've been in. I've also traveled a lot, which means you do have lots of cultures, you do have lots of differences, but I think that makes us better educated and able to recognize when you need to change style not not be authentic, but change style to get what you need out of a particular scenario or outcome and deliver the best thing for business.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 8:48

I mean, you mentioned the two key words there in terms of, you know, being agile and adaptability is so important and you know, diversity of thought, culture, understanding different ways of working, is so key, and there are industries that will be created now that probably didn't even, or sectors that didn't exist with AI and so on and so forth. So I think being flexible is very key to be able to have that helicopter view as a C-suite leader as well.

Billie O'Connor: 9:18

I think the other thing as well for me is knowing when to lead and make the decision and drive forward, and knowing when to ask others because they will have a much better option. And I've worked with some great people. I've worked with two that really stick in my mind and the thing they had in common was they would actually find joy in saying to me this is my idea, now tell me why it's not going to work. Saying to me this is my idea, now tell me why it's not going to work. They didn't. They didn't love that criticism or or barriers a damn thing they were. They were going. I need I know you will find every hole in what I've just come up with so that we can deal with it, so that we can get on with it, or actually, because it's a pie in the sky idea that's not going to work. Because I'm absolutely not a visionary.

Billie O'Connor: 10:04

I am probably an incredible operator and implementer so we can sit in a room and we can set a strategy and I will work out whether we can actually do it or not, or what we need in order for it to work and also what the risk is as well, isn't it?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 10:17

yeah?

Billie O'Connor: 10:17

absolutely, and I think that you need a really good balance around the table of the board. I know exactly who I am, what I can bring and I know what I don't bring, and therefore need to find those complementing skills in the team around me. Um and the other. That's what I just love, and so, as a result, I think, people who can take feedback and you need to teach your teams how to take feedback not as a down or a negative thing, but as something that they can go. Oh god, I hadn't thought of that and you wrote that down. Next time I'll think of that, and if you take every bit of feedback in that way, it's just a massive path to learning I find fascinating. That's why I like making a lot of people, because they normally all give me their thoughts.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 10:53

So oh, yeah, that's. That's definitely one of the things I always, when I meet someone new, I think, okay, what is good? One good thing I can take away from them and one thing that I don't want to take away from that as well.

Billie O'Connor: 11:05

So there's always an opportunity and your opinion is right. It's just an opinion sometimes.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 11:10

Can you say some challenges or setbacks that you faced in your career and how you overcame it? Because, especially as a woman in the industry, in the sector that you're in, you must have had some experiences where you think you know. I wish I could tell my younger self this, or I could inspire someone else to navigate that too.

Billie O'Connor: 11:32

Yeah, I think there's. I can look at this. There's loads that we learn from and I think the one that sticks in my mind is probably that when there is bad behavior happening at any level by any member, I think we need to be brave enough to call it out. And if I look back to two or three occasions during my career, I know now absolutely was bad behavior. I know to recognize it now and I know to call it out now, and there's very professional ways to call out bad behavior.

Billie O'Connor: 12:02

It doesn't mean get combative, it doesn't mean be difficult in a meeting in front of lots of people. It can be an off-the-record conversation with that person who is clearly not giving the level of respect that somebody else or you deserve, whatever the scenario might be. So I think when I look back now and if there's anything I hope to pass on to people I meet, it's if it doesn't feel right. It probably isn't and therefore asking for can we grab a coffee? By the way, I want you to know how you're making me feel that's actually not a bad conversation, because some people don't realize some people do and it gets fronted into a difficult conversation.

Billie O'Connor: 12:39

And I think we need to learn those skills for difficult conversations, because you can't get good at it without it, because the world isn't fair, it doesn't all happen as it should and you have to be able to recognize that that behavior, whether it's in a peer, whether it's in someone you work for or in your team between two team members, as a manager, it's not a hr issue. It is your issue to make sure your team works effectively and can actually collaborate, and it's for you to make sure that that's happening well I mean, I totally agree with that, but it's that is so interesting.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 13:11

um, and just circling back to teams and developing high performance teams as well, what are some valuable lessons you've learned about really managing teams and managing stakeholder relationships at exec levels? You know, there's always the saying of how you manage upwards and downwards, but what are some nuggets you'd love to share on that?

Billie O'Connor: 13:33

Okay. So in terms of building a team, that's in your, in your team um, I've always hired for a attitude and ability to learn rather than the skills they walk in with on day one. Yes, of course, I could not bring somebody in who wasn't a qualified accountant. If they have to be a qualified accountant in order to do x, I couldn't bring in somebody into a hr function who's never done hr before. But what you can do is go. Well, here's the six things that we know we need. You've done four of them and got great experience. One you've already researched and one you've got a tiny bit of experience in. But I can see you've got capability to learn. So I definitely hire on the capability and the attitude, because I also think if you give someone really small chance to do something they've never done before, they will smash it because they won't want to fail. And that's very much the situation I found myself in and, quite frankly, when I joined Muller originally, I interviewed with the CEO. I then interviewed with a group CFO and I interviewed the group HR director and was absolutely transparently clear that I've been in two transactions, but only in the number two and not left one, and they thought that was fine because we had advisors around us and I knew what I should be worrying about. I'd done my research and we had a really good set of interviews and I went in and we sold that business. So I think you should give people a chance if they show they've got an aptitude to learn and they've got, you know, the ability to to learn new skills.

Billie O'Connor: 14:59

Um, I think when you're managing or working on what peer group looks like, I referred to sort of my comment earlier, which is I think everybody needs to develop their own self-awareness so they know what they're good at, because if you were to sit a exec team down, they should all be able to explain the role they play around that table, and that's not always the case. What they think they do and what they actually do can sometimes be different. So I think creating peer groups of trust is important so you can have the conversation that says I know you think you're being helpful when x, y and z, but in reality do you realize that really destabilizes the team, but not necessarily in the way you think? I think you need to be able to do that. I also think you need to be able to say I think you do a fantastic job of this and that's not even part of what you're supposed to be doing. So, just so you know, that's the extra value add.

Billie O'Connor: 15:50

The concept of managing up versus managing down, I don't particularly like, because I think that people should be authentic in who they are, and I've met a lot of people that are brilliant at managing upwards and terrible people managers when it comes to their teams.

Billie O'Connor: 16:05

However, I do get the concept of you are in that middle layer. You are responsible for understanding what the investors need, what the board is requiring and what they don't want to hear about, and that's just a case of this should be summarized, but this needs a lot of detail. We should be setting a course for five years in this meeting, but three years in that one. That's very different what you need to necessarily set for your team, but that's what we're paid to do, that's our job. So you know, I think, building a trust in your peer group, I think being able to really allow the team to grow, develop and show what they can do, and, I think, getting under the skin of what's important to those that you work for or invest in you. That's kind of, I think, what allows you to have the right leadership style for each scenario.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 16:54

And what you've just described, that's come with your experience and learning over time. Isn't it Also having a high level of self-awareness yourself and observing as you've risen through the ranks, would you say?

Billie O'Connor: 17:05

Oh, I think it's so important and it's one of the things that when you get feedback from very early on, it's that in the early days it was definitely I was too direct, but it was very clear that I was very self-aware. So sometimes I remember sitting down with a particular boss who would say I would say you didn't realize that that comment you made in the meeting caused quite a stir. But I know how self-aware you are. So what was the outcome you were trying to achieve when you decided to point out that this particular project was not doing what it should? I need to point out that this particular project was not doing what it should, and so I am aware when, when I'm doing things that might cause a bit of destabilization, but sometimes I think we need to have that.

Billie O'Connor: 17:46

I don't think it will be yes, then I don't think we should all just be going in the same direction because someone said so. I think we need to pressure test all along the way, especially the current climate. So I think the different cultures, different industries, different management teams all add to your toolkit and you choose what to take.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 18:04

Yeah, someone said to me also know your audience and similar to you, saying what outcome are you trying to achieve with what?

Billie O'Connor: 18:11

you're about to say and that always runs through my mind Honestly, what outcome do you want? Is what you should go into almost every interaction with, because I do struggle with this in some of the meetings I'm in or some of the forums I'm in with some female leaders who can get very frustrated that there wasn't a fair conversation on the table or there might not have been things that went a certain way, or that they might have, in some scenarios, had to pander to a senior male leader in order to get something done. I'm in the. I'm honestly in the zone of what is the best outcome that we want from this meeting interaction.

Billie O'Connor: 18:46

Whatever it might be, and as long as I am still a good leader and authentic in what I'm doing. If it requires me to adapt my style a little bit to get to the outcome, I can get on and do that. It's really not the end of the world and that's not just a man or female thing. I've worked for female leaders where the style of that's a brilliant idea. I wish I'd thought of that when they've just played back to me what I've already said. Let's just get it over the line and get it done, because that might be a positive impact for a whole bunch of employees.

Billie O'Connor: 19:13

I'm not going to argue about picking up the idea, I just want to get it sorted. I'll go with who gets the credit later. It's really not as important.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 19:21

Yeah, I love that. That's a really good nugget. So you've told us let's talk about some key milestones, and you've mentioned one yourself You've recently led a successful transaction to conclusion. So tell us more about this experience and really, in terms of from your perspective as a leader, and the key factors that you feel, with your experience, led to that success.

Billie O'Connor: 19:43

The first thing when it comes to any transaction of any kind. So a transaction can be a sale from a founder to a new owner. It can be a business to a private equity owner. It could be an IPO, where you actually get listed on a stock exchange. So there's lots of different versions of a transaction. In this case, it was a sale by a privately owned business to another privately owned business. First of all yes, I won't downplay that I did a very big leading part in it. There is nothing that's done in isolation. There is a whole team, because the the sheer volume of expertise needed on that kind of thing, which is no different to maybe some of the big complex projects you think about, whether that's erp or whatever it might be, not not there is no one skill needed so there are lots.

Billie O'Connor: 20:28

You know whether it's tax, whether it's legal, whether it's really detailed financial information, all sorts of things, and actually the role of a transaction director as well. So we have an excellent lady who worked in the team she was part of, who was hired in by miller. I went and found her lady called samvery and she was just. Sometimes you need that person in the room that is keeping everybody on track with what their responsibilities are and what needs to be happening and some of those roles. You don't realize how incredibly important they are for keeping everybody on point and making sure things happen.

Billie O'Connor: 21:02

I think my biggest learnings out of it were don't underestimate the work and the hours that are required, because timelines shift very, very quickly.

Billie O'Connor: 21:13

Also, don't undervalue your team, because it isn't something you can do on your own and they are still the same as you balancing, running a business, doing all of the BAU, coping with a difficult economic climate, plus also dealing with something that was quite a big deal. So I think making sure everybody is aware and appreciated of what's going on and it's not just considered BAU, is quite important as well. And then I think really staying close to your peers, in my case the exec team and the ceo I worked for. If we hadn't stayed very tight throughout the whole process, things could have got off track very quickly. So we ended up going to share responsibilities, set different people responsible for things so other people get on with other stuff, and we just have to really trust each other and I don't think it would have been possible, without that kind of trust built in advance, of doing something like this. I think it would be a lot harder without.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 22:06

Oh, that's amazing. I mean it circles back to all the things you've talked about that you're only as good as the team that you have and the communication and the trust and sharing those responsibilities and, like you said, having someone who's sense checking and keeping everyone on track, because we all know how quickly things can be sidelined in any project or things that you're trying to do.

Billie O'Connor: 22:27

Well, different agendas or competing priorities, sometimes you need someone that doesn't have one. Yeah, exactly the outcome of this one thing to worry about, and therefore they'll keep us all honest.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 22:37

Let's talk about Nova, and you've described yourself as a fierce advocate for women. What inspired you to establish the Nova community and how has leading the senior leadership network impacted your own professional personal growth, and also thinking about the advancements of women in leadership positions?

Billie O'Connor: 22:56

Oh, it's quite a lot to unpack there. What would I say? I would say, first of all, I describe it, when I do a lot of the introductions, as a happy accident, because I'm definitely not a community leader and I'm definitely not an event organiser. What I am, though, is somebody who recognises smart people, and, as I mentioned at the beginning, I like spending time with people and learning from them.

Billie O'Connor: 23:17

So, pre-linkedin, pre-the internet as we know it now it was. You had to take the telephone number of somebody you liked, who wasn't mobile, not that old, and then you'd have to arrange to meet them, and then you would meet them for a coffee, and that was all, while you were in sort of a certain area. So, therefore, your pool of people you could meet was relatively limited, but you have to put a lot of effort in, and I have definitely done that. I still know people from Debenhams days, which was only sort of my second finance job, mls days. Right the way through, I've stayed in touch and I make the effort, and it's not small effort. How many of us talk about? We don't even speak to our friends after two or three months because life gets busy. So to keep a network rally is a lot of work, but what I realized is I was getting whether it was great phone calls from recruiters, whether it was people who were willing to drop everything to give me some advice, whether it was people who were referring me to great events, whatever it might be.

Billie O'Connor: 24:08

I was meeting more and more women in particular, but I've got loads of really great male peers. But I was meeting some women that were saying I've they had better careers than me in my opinion, but weren't getting those phone calls or weren't getting those reach outs. So I realized I was doing lots of these individual touch points and felt that we could benefit by sharing. So I did three dinners in a row, one after the other, with three brilliant women, and I was very sure I got to the end of it. When we should have just had one dinner. There should have been four of us around the table. We should have trusted that. If I trust them, they should trust each other. Let's have a candid conversation about some of the things we're dealing with, and so that's what I did.

Billie O'Connor: 24:44

I created a private LinkedIn group. There was 12 of us at the very beginning and I said next time two of us are going for dinner, let's make it six and we'll just share. And it went from there. And that was just over a year ago now and, as I realized the momentum whilst trying to run a transaction, which definitely wasn't the best timing, um, I just kept it going and then decided it clearly needed a team, it needed some structure, we needed to keep it peer-to-peer. We now got four cohorts, over 500 members across the fall um and it's started being built around my experience and why kid group. But it's already grown wider.

Billie O'Connor: 25:20

So it started with cfos and fds. Then we had a financial controller and head of type cohort, which were the next cfos and fds of the world. Then it went much broader than finance because I've got mds and ceos and it directors and customer directors and hr directors in my, in my groups. We've got a c-suite group. Then we had Neds coming in who were saying, well, I don't do C-suite anymore, but I'm now in the portfolio, can I join? And then we started Women in Transformation, which is IT, finance and change as well as pure transformation, and they're all just.

Billie O'Connor: 25:51

It's lovely watching them all bounce off each other. It's so much bigger than I am. People are just helping themselves. There's. It is. People are just helping themselves. There's so many calls that are scheduled. People who are looking for roles get together. People are on that leave or going on that leave are getting together. We've got people who are just getting together for a monthly touch point because they're really into more portfolio roles. So it's so much more than just what I envisaged it being um and to see people get new roles, bridge skill gaps, have difficult conversations at work they weren't happy to have or just share experiences with others and the benefit they get from sharing experience, not just receiving. Yeah, it's fun. It's definitely a lot of fun.

Billie O'Connor: 26:29

And I've met some great people at Terwina right I mean it's amazing. And then you met at Retail Hive. I do remember the Retail Hive event, but what kept it going was the connections I do out the back of that stuff. So well done retail hive, just getting it in there exactly.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 26:44

I mean, honestly, it's been amazing the fact that you just started and that's a testament that if you've got an idea sometime, just roll with it and it's evolved and adapted. And you know, we are all seeking, whether we're men or women, just people to be able to connect with, have a chat with and feel seen, heard and respected, and sometimes it's just only that that we need, or, off the back of that, you know, some advice, a job role or, like you said, having difficult conversations comes through. I mean, what motivates you to continue to advocate for women in leadership positions, because I feel that that's a passion project of yours in a way.

Billie O'Connor: 27:25

Because a lot of women leaders mainly cross. I'm always very direct and transparent. When I listen to somebody who has incredible experience, who can sit and have a really good discussion and debate over the table over dinner, and then will reveal that they had a difficult meeting at work, who were made to feel small and their boss said x and they didn't pull him up on it, I, I get. I find myself being quite angry because I think how can you let that behavior stand? You, you are worth so much more than that. There's so much more you can do and I get that there's a long game.

Billie O'Connor: 27:59

So I think it comes from seeing that sometimes we just need a bit of a push, a bit of a reinforcement, not all, because, again, it's not just gender specific. So we have a secret group you know we don't even advertise called Nova with balls, which is quite funny, but some of my male peers are in there and we do next time to time they go on calls together, you know, whatever, whatever's suitable, but it's because it isn't just a connection is something everybody needs. There's a lot of networking events and people need connection. The piece, like I said, the thing that the theme piece in particular is just when I watched. I met too many along the way who could be running the country by now and it's nothing to do with work-life balance or having children or whatever we put it down to. Sometimes it is just their own belief in their self and I think we have to own that and I don't think we can put on anybody else that they we're not confident because we weren't given the confidence. We kind of have to take that ourselves.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 28:56

It's our job yeah, take the ownership back, isn't it? That's that's really key. Let's talk about work-life balance and and self-care. What does that mean to you? And the reason why I bring it up is because there is no perfect answer. Everyone needs to define what that means to them, depending on their situation, and it's it's key because otherwise, you know, we live in a world of instagram and so on, and we're seeing what other people are doing and thinking why can't that be me? It's, it's human nature, but actually self-care and balance is defined differently for everybody else it is um, so um.

Billie O'Connor: 29:34

The best way I can describe it is I went to an Albrecht event and they had a lady called Rebecca speaking, and she worked for Goldman Sachs, yes, and when she described how she explains work-life balance, it completely resonated, totally then made sense to me. That's exactly what I do and what she talked about. I think her book that she wrote is called shifting the dials. Um, and it was this concept of it's not about balance. There is no balance. You can't have a balance if you want to have a big career and be in the room but also want to have a family, but also want to look after your health but also need to look after aging hair. There is no such thing as just balance, but what there is is choice and again, this is another reason why the whole piece with some of the female leaders. You know we make choices and we have to understand when you choose one thing, you're not choosing another. That is just the scenario. So she was talking about how, um, you might have a period of time where your children are young, so you turn the dial up around family and making sure, but it might mean you'll dial around either health and self-care. So maybe you went to the gym five times a week. You can't do that if you're also doing the drop-off or doing X or doing Y. The dial around work might dial down if you decide to go down to four days a week and there is only so much you can do in four days a week. So she talks about this concept with different stages of your life. You are shifting the dials and you're constantly fine-tuning and tweaking them, and that's exactly how I feel my world is.

Billie O'Connor: 31:08

My problem and it is genuinely a problem I do know it is is that I should really turn up the dial around sleep and doing nothing complete digital detox. You know I don't. Instead, nova started when I did a three-week holiday to South Africa to actually have a break in the midst of the transaction because it was so tough, and two days in on our downtime, decided to start an online community. So I don't really. My version of relaxing probably looks a lot different to some. It's not laying on a beach and doing nothing. It's doing using the other part of my brain to do something I enjoy. That isn't work and no, there's a really good example of that when people say oh, my god, it feels like you're constantly active. I'm like I'm doing something I enjoy.

Billie O'Connor: 31:52

I own a house a wildlife photographer happiest person you'll meet definitely on a different energy level, should we say, than than I am. But what he does do is he will sit there and be editing photos he took one morning and I'll say, why are you working? And he's like, oh no, I'm doing this bit for fun. So, whereas he has to do editing after a customer walk as part of what he delivers for his work, sometimes he just wants to do it because he loves it and I think that's a little bit just because it's linkedin that I use it doesn't mean it feels like work to me. Um. So yeah, balance, I think, is something that's very personal to each individual, but I think it's a dial shift, not a pure scale yeah, that there's something to be said.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 32:31

There are there a lot of um research that really says your, your best ideas come actually when you're doing other things. So there are some people move with notebooks when they're on holiday or you know they have their phone using the notes function or they're collating it as a mood board actually while you're doing something else. And the key is, if we were going to give advice to our younger selves, is finding something you're passionate about, isn't it? Because then it doesn't feel like work. Absolutely finding something you're passionate about isn't it?

Billie O'Connor: 33:00

then it doesn't feel, um, like work absolutely, because if you're passionate about running, and that's what you like to do in your free time, you may find all sorts of inspiration. Whether that's due to home life or work life during that time, it doesn't. It doesn't matter what you're passionate about you.

Billie O'Connor: 33:13

Just, I do think you need to be passionate about something yeah, I think it creates energy, I think it creates enthusiasm, I think, and I think it makes you a. I think it creates energy, I think it creates enthusiasm, I think, and I think it makes you uh, I think it makes you an interesting person as well. I love meeting people and I don't care what their passion is. It could be something I've never heard of, but if they're really passionate about it, you catch on to it and you want to hear more about it and be part of the discussion. So, yeah, I think that's quite a big thing to me.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 33:37

And also makes for interesting discussion points around the table, isn't it? Because then it's diversity of thought again, which we know is not only important in your personal interactions with people, but professionally too. Yeah, absolutely. What's next, then, for Nova? Where do you see it going? Obviously, it's a year in. Yeah.

Billie O'Connor: 33:57

I keep saying all the time we can close it when it no longer does any benefit for people. So we started it saying this might only run for three months because once everybody knows each other, once everyone's updated their profiles properly, once everybody is on everybody's recruitment radar, once we found ways to bridge knowledge gaps, it's not going to be needed. It's not showing any signs of stopping. Sound ways to bridge knowledge gaps it's not going to be needed, but it's not showing any signs of stopping. So we, the women in transformation cohort that started in january has now already started to grow and that's already starting to build and it's doing a number of events in its own right and then last week became where is the hr and people officer version? So where can heads of hr get together? And I did add a bit of a look around and there's a couple of communities, but probably not one in the same sphere as what we've built for nova. So that's probably coming based on the messages this morning when I asked if there's an interest level. The other part, as I mentioned, part of the frustration I have is all the conversations I made, is the self-belief, the how to, to have difficult conversations that actually I think a lot of them could. So we're just about we've been reviewing and screening a number of coaches and working out what is the what do I class as a really qualified coach to be part of our community and then also be available. So it won't be a nova coach because I'm not employing anybody, but I do want to be able to say do you know? I think this is what good looks like if you were to ask me, but it's just my opinion. There's loads of great people out there, um, and there seems to be a real desire for people to have I don't don't even know if it's group coaching, but to have some kind of professional lead, some of these discussions and help us have some conversations around a table through to actually I'll go on a whole professional development journey as an exec member into an NED. My company wants to do that with me. I want to find someone I can trust. So I think that will be the next space.

Billie O'Connor: 35:58

We'll see quite a lot of activity in coming really soon and that will be one of two things. It will either completely take off because I've hit it on the head in terms of exactly what's needed, or it will be something where people go. Yeah, I'm going to dip in a little bit and they'll, but actually that's not the direction I want to go. But I think that's what's the nice part of this community we get instant feedback and people don't mind that. It's a safe space to share their opinion. So sometimes we've signed up with a recruiter. We really haven't had a great experience. I've had that feedback and we've knocked it on the head very quickly because they haven't had the matching of brand and values that I've envisaged and I've told them that that's what I want. So I like that. We can test and learn and we've got a whole four of people that will give us, give us feedback really quickly, really quickly that's amazing.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 36:44

Let's talk about your, your values. What are your core values and and ethics? How? How would you describe them? Um?

Billie O'Connor: 36:50

oh god, um, absolutely honesty and respect. I really think that anybody who finds a way to do say one thing and do another, um, that really doesn't resonate with me at all. And I also. I realize there's a time and a place for landing messages. Every professional and every leader understands that. But I think there's a difference between managing messaging because of sensitivity whether that be legal, whether that be employment related, whatever it might be and point blank lack of disrespect or lying.

Billie O'Connor: 37:22

I think there's a difference, so that that really really um is important to me, which, in my world, links to authenticity. You know, being one thing and saying one thing and being another, I think is a problem um, so I think there's a pretty cool um, and then, linked to, I think the respect is just, you shouldn't treat people differently because of either where they've come from, what they have in the bank, where they have dinner. I think that people can bring great conversation, great experience, great knowledge. It's not all the same type. So I feel that there's lots of value to be added from lots of different individuals and we need to respect that. So, yeah, I think that's kind of really at my core and everything else is then a build on from that.

Billie O'Connor: 38:09

Um, because I've got as much admiration for my grandmother who was a school dinner lady and could turn a budget of the equivalent stay of maybe 30 quid into a meal for I don't know 150 kids en masse. I've got as much respect for somebody that can do things like that and cope with lots of foster children coming through and finding ways to clothe them with a very small budget from the foster care system to a career person like my mother, who went through and became incredibly senior in the Met Police but had very different skills that I can absolutely respect, relate to and want to follow in the footsteps of. They're just quite different.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 38:51

Yeah, and really from what you're saying, you know there's that foundation that you had growing up. That has obviously transpired into everything that you do and your values as well. It resonates really.

Billie O'Connor: 39:03

Yeah, we come from bit genes, we say, and also we've definitely got career women of all ages high, without a doubt.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 39:10

What are your future aspirations, Billie? Because you've had an illustrious career. If someone looks at it on paper, when do you see yourself next five to ten years? Or is it too far to even think that way?

Billie O'Connor: 39:22

well, I don't do life plans as such, much to most people's annoyance, because they do want one. Um, I just know that I will take. So, for example, I will take another role. Um, I'm in a couple of processes at the moment. I'm speaking to a number of people around different things.

Billie O'Connor: 39:39

I don't want to start until September so that I give my other half some well-deserved time away from work, but I think I don't. I don't tend to decide on a path like I decide on wanting to work with really good, really smart people so that I'm constantly learning as well as adding value in my area, and I want to work for a business that I respect and admire. And there's a couple of businesses that I just wouldn't work for just because of the you know mismatch of what they actually do for a living versus values and things that I value, and I need to be learning all the time. So there are some really lovely roles that come up and then I'm. I go into the detail of it and think, oh god, in about six months I would be wondering what to do with myself and some people I know think I'm mad because they say but that's great, you get paid what you want.

Billie O'Connor: 40:36

You could probably do the work in four days it would give you more time to do other stuff but that I get my enjoyment from doing a really engaging, interesting role where I learn all the time. Um, so I think I can't. I can't tell you what the path looks like, but I can tell you I'll be doing something really interesting. It will probably be quite hard because I'll have to learn a lot doing it, but I will definitely make sure I'm working with good people, people I respect and also love it but I think that also comes with maturity, because I've also been thinking about that as well the goals that I set.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 41:10

You know, when I was 20, I was like I had this five-year plan, this salary, this position, etc. And now, um in, in my early 40s, it's, it's all about like what is the mission?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 41:21

I love you, billy, but really thinking about, like you said, what, what makes me happy. I want to always be learning. You know what's? What are the new industries and sectors coming up? How can I be challenged? I think those are the things that play in in my mind and actually then your options are probably even wider, whereas if you limit yourself to a specific company, specific you know, sector specific, etc. Then you're limiting yourself as well and I don't want to.

Billie O'Connor: 41:51

You know, some people have very clear views of what they want to do and I meet I'm even through nova I meet some people who tell me categorically they like this industry, they're staying in that industry. Who might say that they're wrong? I just, it's just not what works for me and that's why you know when people go, oh you've got a big retail background, I'm like, well, I have. But actually, basically, if I take Debenhams, I didn't really work in the retail part of Debenhams at all. I ran the logistics finance side, which meant that I spent all my time at the logistics director. We had an external 3PL and I spent most of my time at the external 3PL dealing with all of the logistics KPIs, the costs associated, monitoring on a weekly basis.

Billie O'Connor: 42:31

Understanding, because that was our biggest cost center it was like 40-odd million back then for DevLums so it wasn't really a retail finance role, it was a logistics finance role. So even though it looks like the same sector, I've made sure it's a very different, other way and that's why I think he's very negative. So it doesn't surprise me. You're thinking through the whole. How do I stay challenged because the industries are changing so much?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 42:54

yeah, industry agnostic is definitely the way forward. I think let's talk about trailblazer tips. You've shared your amazing story. What advice would you like to give to the audience listening now, based on your own career journey so far?

Billie O'Connor: 43:09

Just an echo of earlier, which is I really think it's important to know yourself what you want, but also really who you are. How do people describe you when you're in a room? And if you're not sure what they say, probably time to ask you know, because what you think you did of that, or what you think you come across as, or what you actually do, can be very different. So I think self-awareness is incredibly important and it will make it so much easier for you to find the right role, getting to the right team and so on. And then the other part, I think, is just the whole be curious, ask questions, want to learn. You don't have to work 100 hours a week to be curious and be learning. Whatever your work pattern needs to be, whatever your choices are, I still think being a little bit curious about wanting to learn something new, whether it's in your work life or your home life, I think keeps us young, um, and keeps it interesting billy, thank you so much for taking the time to come to the trailblazers experience podcast.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 44:13

You know I've I've taken already some notes and some tips for myself and I'm I'm sure the audience will really appreciate that.

Billie O'Connor: 44:22

Well, thank you for having me and thank you for being such an instrumental part of NOVA outside of this, because we see each other really regularly. It's lovely to have you on board and I think some of the honesty and the things that you share with the group as well allows us to have really good, robust conversations, and that's incredibly important.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 44:38

So, thank you thank you very much. So, audience, this has been the trailblazers experience podcast. Tell another woman about the podcast and remember to follow, like, share and look forward to next time. Thank you.